What kind of PMR is PMR?

Licence free two-way radio services that now includes both FM and digital channels. Discuss models, modifications and other similar worldwide standards such as FRS and GMRS.
beltane
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What kind of PMR is PMR?

Post by beltane »

There seems to be a few different "versions" of PMR. You've got old school 8 channels, then there's the extra 8 channels they added later, and then there's Kenwood channels that differ in frequency and use CTCSS and DCS, and then there's dPMR with it's own frequencies and the whole thing just gets more complicated. There's even some waffle about a special secret channel 9 once upon a time that was 447.005 MHz.

While researching this mess I've read that analogue PMR can use the extra 8 digital channels, etc. That seems odd, but as it's all license free maybe there's really nothing set in stone.

Since all PMR (if running less than half a watt) is license free then what's to stop people from just using any old random combination of 446 MHz channels they want with whatever CTCSS of DCS they want on their own personal radios?

Using that logic could you program radios to use any frequencies that started with 446 as your own private channels for just you and your mates? It all seems a bit vague really.
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Re: What kind of PMR is PMR?

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Save in the 16 channels as people do use them. A few nets on PMR446.
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Re: What kind of PMR is PMR?

Post by paulears »

It's just a band, and as it's unprotected, the Government just don't seem interested in how it is used. They set the standards, the important things like power and deviation and the approved frequencies. Then they updated it to allow digital operation. People have always used this a sort of 'guideline' for individualk enthusiasts, while the Government assume somebody goes out and buys ten, switches them all to the same number and serves their customers, or talks to the people upstairs in the stores, or in the hotel bedrooms. None of these people are remotely interested in talking to strangers - so we have a standard, but when you buy the radios as a job lot, the real spec you don't even know. The hobbyist who wants to talk to strangers gets a bit fed up when people all have slightly different version = but its exempt from licencing, so it's what it is.
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Re: What kind of PMR is PMR?

Post by beltane »

Yeah it's all the different versions of channels that I find both annoying and interesting. For instance what's called Kenwood PMR channels don't all match with other brand PMR channels, and from what I've gathered after many hours of researching this nonsense there's even apparently some duplication with Kenwood using the same frequency for their channels 7 and 16 but with different "signalling" of 127.3Hz and D243N, however THAT works out, and channels 8 and 15 are likewise freakish.

Then there's things like Kenwood channel 4 frequency with CTCSS is somebody else's channel 6 without and so on, all of which must be Hell for people trying to use different radios to talk to each other.

It's like anybody can just make up whatever channels they please on any frequency that falls between 446 and 447, which got me wondering if you could for instance program your own radios to use oddball 446 frequencies so you could have private radio communication between sets, like for a road convoy, hunting, farming, paragliding, mountaineering, events management, pub and restaurant staff communication and all sorts of things. With the low power of PMR it seems like you could use basically any 446.xxx frequency between radios for a more private communication, which could be a good thing in some instances.
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Re: What kind of PMR is PMR?

Post by LondonCbRadio »

Look here is the deal first of all forget all this ofcom does this and ofcom does that the bottom line is they don't do ****. We could go on any ham band or pmr446 and chat forever and nothing will happen that's it. Now on to why i like pmr446. Like so many i have noise on CB Radio or that would be my go to place. PMR446 i have no noise and can talk for many miles but keep in mind my antenna is clearing my house roof. On CB radio i'm lucky to hear someone just 10 miles down the road due to noise, It's a joke but that's just the way it is as 2pac would say. Ham radio don't interest me as i find it fake saying a callsign every over. I came from CB and that don't feel natty to me. PMR446 is closest thing we have to CB radio in the UK. With a antenna being like a foot long and that being so low profile i find it ideal. Not everyone can put up 18 feet antennas due to locals or councils.
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Re: What kind of PMR is PMR?

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LondonCbRadio wrote: ↑07 Jan 2023, 15:22 Look here is the deal first of all forget all this ofcom does this and ofcom does that the bottom line is they don't do ****. We could go on any ham band or pmr446 and chat forever and nothing will happen that's it. Now on to why i like pmr446. Like so many i have noise on CB Radio or that would be my go to place. PMR446 i have no noise and can talk for many miles but keep in mind my antenna is clearing my house roof. On CB radio i'm lucky to hear someone just 10 miles down the road due to noise, It's a joke but that's just the way it is as 2pac would say. Ham radio don't interest me as i find it fake saying a callsign every over. I came from CB and that don't feel natty to me. PMR446 is closest thing we have to CB radio in the UK. With a antenna being like a foot long and that being so low profile i find it ideal. Not everyone can put up 18 feet antennas due to locals or councils.

I like both. I prefer CB ,
More channels, although empty 🀣
I've no signal meter on my PMR radios, I like a signal meter, especially old analogue ones 😁

Good point you make about homebase antenna.
PMR lends itself to mobile use too with shorter more discreet antennas imo.

A decent little bee sting does ok over a couple of miles , coupled with thin coax and cheap sets it's easier to access. hopefully it keeps growing in popularity.
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Re: What kind of PMR is PMR?

Post by beltane »

I've looked into CB from time to time and am always put off by the noise and the need for obnoxious antennas and by the fact that 99% of the time there's nothing on any channel but a scrum of knob-ends on 19 telling each other to eff off. PMR suffers from unrealistic rules and regulations about things like half watt power limitation and no antennas allowed. Ham radio suffers from so many issues I can't even begin to list them here, and you need to be licensed to boot which puts off most people so what you end up with is the same half dozen old farts lurking on the repeaters like guard dogs just waiting to hurl abuse at anybody who accidentally uses the wrong protocol just to ask for a quick signal check.

I think this is would be a great time for a PMR revolution. I can think of MANY instances where something like a cheap PMR radio would be ideal for the situation but "The Rules" won't allow it. For instance, an elderly woman I know with mobility issues lives alone in a small village populated mostly by old people and she won't use a mobile phone because she's too tight to pay for calls and the technology is too baffling for her, but a simple PTT PMR radio would be a lifesaver.

Using cheap PMR radios and a cheap centrally located repeater (in the church spire or something), all running no more than 2-5 watts, the whole village could be in communication. All the old folks and the businesses could maintain a community feel and they could take care of each other and have social natters. However, half a watt is absurdly feeble and won't even get to the end of the street she lives on.
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Re: What kind of PMR is PMR?

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beltane wrote: ↑07 Jan 2023, 22:58 I've looked into CB from time to time and am always put off by the noise and the need for obnoxious antennas and by the fact that 99% of the time there's nothing on any channel but a scrum of knob-ends on 19 telling each other to eff off. PMR suffers from unrealistic rules and regulations about things like half watt power limitation and no antennas allowed. Ham radio suffers from so many issues I can't even begin to list them here, and you need to be licensed to boot which puts off most people so what you end up with is the same half dozen old farts lurking on the repeaters like guard dogs just waiting to hurl abuse at anybody who accidentally uses the wrong protocol just to ask for a quick signal check.

I think this is would be a great time for a PMR revolution. I can think of MANY instances where something like a cheap PMR radio would be ideal for the situation but "The Rules" won't allow it. For instance, an elderly woman I know with mobility issues lives alone in a small village populated mostly by old people and she won't use a mobile phone because she's too tight to pay for calls and the technology is too baffling for her, but a simple PTT PMR radio would be a lifesaver.

Using cheap PMR radios and a cheap centrally located repeater (in the church spire or something), all running no more than 2-5 watts, the whole village could be in communication. All the old folks and the businesses could maintain a community feel and they could take care of each other and have social natters. However, half a watt is absurdly feeble and won't even get to the end of the street she lives on.

Like London said, it's not really "policed" these days. There is digital now so they're not really bothered.
Unless of course it was a good earner.

Mable at number 43 and Stan at 27 would be far worse off for not getting a vaccine booster to put in the billionaire coffers πŸ‘πŸΌπŸ«£πŸ€£
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Re: What kind of PMR is PMR?

Post by beltane »

All I can say is the WLN KD-C1 (and variants) are cracking little PMR radios that even Mable and Stan could easily use. Too bad they're "not allowed" because of the whacking great destructive power two whole watts of PMR might have on the infrastructure of modern civilization. But of course I would never recommend them for PMR use. Never. That would be promoting bad radiomanship.


(I've got two of the buggers, one for PMR and one for 70cm)
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Re: What kind of PMR is PMR?

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beltane wrote: ↑08 Jan 2023, 01:02 All I can say is the WLN KD-C1 (and variants) are cracking little PMR radios that even Mable and Stan could easily use. Too bad they're "not allowed" because of the whacking great destructive power two whole watts of PMR might have on the infrastructure of modern civilization. But of course I would never recommend them for PMR use. Never. That would be promoting bad radiomanship.


(I've got two of the buggers, one for PMR and one for 70cm)


Hmmm just googled them. Β£20 for two and 5 watts.
I've some Baofeng 's tuned to 446 but they're handy πŸ‘πŸΌπŸ˜
Mable and Stan might meet for a swan vesta curry if they had em πŸ‘πŸΌπŸ€£
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Re: What kind of PMR is PMR?

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Stan could be gay so no good to Mable.
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Re: What kind of PMR is PMR?

Post by paulears »

beltane wrote: ↑06 Jan 2023, 21:58

It's like anybody can just make up whatever channels they please on any frequency that falls between 446 and 447, which got me wondering if you could for instance program your own radios to use oddball 446 frequencies so you could have private radio communication between sets, like for a road convoy, hunting, farming, paragliding, mountaineering, events management, pub and restaurant staff communication and all sorts of things. With the low power of PMR it seems like you could use basically any 446.xxx frequency between radios for a more private communication, which could be a good thing in some instances.
I'm always amazed people who operate in 446-7 who want a bit more power and distance dont do it between 445 and 6. The cafes, shops and restaurants - and kids, would be missing and the band peaceful, and not even monitored. Why use a band and share when if you have non-legit PMR446 kit, with non-legit powers even casual listeners would find you? Who would think to look a meg lower? Only people with fully tunable radios - who would then talk to you!
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Re: What kind of PMR is PMR?

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Alan Pilot wrote: ↑08 Jan 2023, 06:34 Stan could be gay so no good to Mable.
Unless Mable is a tranny 😁
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Re: What kind of PMR is PMR?

Post by Tin soldier »

paulears wrote: ↑08 Jan 2023, 12:44
beltane wrote: ↑06 Jan 2023, 21:58

It's like anybody can just make up whatever channels they please on any frequency that falls between 446 and 447, which got me wondering if you could for instance program your own radios to use oddball 446 frequencies so you could have private radio communication between sets, like for a road convoy, hunting, farming, paragliding, mountaineering, events management, pub and restaurant staff communication and all sorts of things. With the low power of PMR it seems like you could use basically any 446.xxx frequency between radios for a more private communication, which could be a good thing in some instances.
I'm always amazed people who operate in 446-7 who want a bit more power and distance dont do it between 445 and 6. The cafes, shops and restaurants - and kids, would be missing and the band peaceful, and not even monitored. Why use a band and share when if you have non-legit PMR446 kit, with non-legit powers even casual listeners would find you? Who would think to look a meg lower? Only people with fully tunable radios - who would then talk to you!


Maybe some people do go 445-6 for more private chat.
I'd hazard a guess though that most people indulge in idle chit chat and discuss equipment etc. And want to be where most others are .


For instance, I was talking to someone on CB FM and we decided to go AM.
It was much better/cleaner.
But we returned to FM after a short while expecting other regulars on.

When they came on we went messing about on ssb etc then returned to an FM channel incase any side breakers wanted to come in.
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Re: What kind of PMR is PMR?

Post by beltane »

Hmmm just googled them. Β£20 for two and 5 watts.
I've some Baofeng 's tuned to 446 but they're handy πŸ‘πŸΌπŸ˜
Mable and Stan might meet for a swan vesta curry if they had em πŸ‘πŸΌπŸ€£
[/quote]

Nope, they're not 5 watts. China lies. But the are a decent 2w and the basic KD-C1 is supported in CHIRP. The other models aren't supported (yet) but the WLN software can be downloaded on the internet. Personally I just use CHIRP with Linux and it works fine.

Charge by USB cable, uses a standard Nokia phone battery which lasts very well, and they're practically indestructible. The can be programmed for UHF and the do a good job at it. Check out Ringway Manchester hitting far away repeaters with them.

Good bits of fun for cheap. Totally no-no for PMR, which reminds me I need to get a move on if I'm going to take my WLN KD-C1 out on the hills tonight at 8pm for no reason whatsoever.
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