Where have all the Hams gone (VHF)

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paulears
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Re: Where have all the Hams gone (VHF)

Post by paulears »

There are so many ways to chat that hams don’t want to speak to the same people every day. Vhf and uhf here in San to France Belgium and Holland is still popular but so many Hans now only seem to have a hand held. I put up my old 8 element horizontal beam and continental xx was common through the summer with some tropo over the sea. My wife made me take it down again because it looked horrible! Here all the chat is either on the analogue repeater or on dmr now
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Re: Where have all the Hams gone (VHF)

Post by LondonCbRadio »

Lots of old hams dying ? I think alot of people get licensed just so they can say to people that are licensed. So many licensed but never heard ever all very strange. Maybe they want it for SHTF ?
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Re: Where have all the Hams gone (VHF)

Post by paulears »

Nah - the Americans seem almost paranoid about doomsday, EMP, natural disasters that they have to buy radio gear, seal it up with their guns and stuff and bury them in the garden. I don't think us Brits are really into that. Don't forget that ham radio is not just VHF and UHF - 1.3GHz and higher and 50 and 70MHz have activity in some parts.
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Re: Where have all the Hams gone (VHF)

Post by LondonCbRadio »

paulears wrote: 29 Aug 2022, 14:17 Nah - the Americans seem almost paranoid about doomsday, EMP, natural disasters that they have to buy radio gear, seal it up with their guns and stuff and bury them in the garden. I don't think us Brits are really into that. Don't forget that ham radio is not just VHF and UHF - 1.3GHz and higher and 50 and 70MHz have activity in some parts.
Maybe you're right i was just putting it out there.
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Re: Where have all the Hams gone (VHF)

Post by Ant »

Andy wrote: 25 Aug 2022, 13:40 I can only speak for myself, but my reasons for going quiet on the Amateur bands is that like-minded people seem to be increasingly rare. I'm talking about radio enthusiasts who enjoy designing and constructing radio-based projects such as QRP transceivers, converters, alignment aids, microwave bits & bobs etc. Oh and converting PMR radios to amateur use, this was a big thing when I was first licensed in 1984.
We used to have an informal group that would meet up on 70cm and keep each other up to date on our latest fiddlings, but it splintered into digital comms (DMR voice), digital data (FT8 and the like) and digital TV. Those of us who enjoyed the analogue ways of doing things clung together for warmth, but what with old age, failing eyesight, the dreaded shakes etc many could not carry on making stuff. Some of them had the audacity to die, damn them! Others turned to basic rag-chewing on the repeaters or on 80m (the Emergency Ward Ten band) and we just fizzled out.
I've lost my microwave paths due to new house-builds nearby and the dreaded trees. My 4m activity went down the nick when a source of wideband hash appeared and filled the 40 to 80 MHz area with buzzy junk. These days I rarely come on except for our Topband net at weekends. That can get a bit technical which is nice, but most people have horrendous noise on 160m and it can take a lot of effort to get around it so people tend not to bother.
Oops, I see I've written about this on page 1. Such is the power of Alzheimer's.
I do know what you mean, but I do think it depends on where you're listening. There are a few repeaters where it's like listening to CBers.

There are still like minded people about who enjoy the technical aspect of the hobby.
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paulears
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Re: Where have all the Hams gone (VHF)

Post by paulears »

There is no difference between CBers and hams on repeaters, and now on worldwide DMR. The licence means nothing in conversation quality. There are two kinds of conversation. Those with a point, and content to support it, and conversations designed to prevent silence. When the conversation is a silence preventer, it matters not a jot who the person is. It’s lacking any content that identifies knowledge, expertise, or interest. It’s like joining a fishing forum and discovering the general section where people can talk about anything, not just fishing, is the only busy area. CB users could chat about specifically CB matters, antennas, mountings, the radios, technical things and so can the hams, apart from their antennas and radios are different, and many much more complicated. Both have dull and interesting people. Nowadays, I listen to all sorts and could pick up a mic, but I don’t, because most people are frankly boring, or even annoying! I rarely use ham DMR because I have little to say, and the idea of boring the entire world on group one is not attractive! The only thing wrong with CB or ham radio is the people. Like in a pub, some you like and want to join their table, and others you want to avoid.
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Re: Where have all the Hams gone (VHF)

Post by beltane »

The biggest problem I see is grumpy old hamsods demanding that you have to spend a lot of money on equipment and have the means and place to put up a big antenna or you don't matter. That's no way to entice anybody into the hobby.

You can get a decent handheld radio for less than £40 now so that should have enticed more people into the hobby, but if all you have is a 2m/70cm HT and a new license you're just going to be all alone because nobody uses the "lesser" bands at all now. A couple of years ago I heard a few people on 2m/70cm but they're all absolutely gone now. Seems that if you can't or won't invest in overly expensive home units, or if you really don't want to just plug in a dongle to a computer and call it "radio" when in fact it's just fancy email, then you're discriminated against.

Radio snobs with pointlessly expensive equipment just don't interact with anybody who's only on a handheld FM radio, so there's no incentive for anybody to dabble in the hobby. 2m/70cm handheld radios have never been cheaper or easier to get, which SHOULD entice people into ham radio, but very few people are going to invest stupid money on extravagant home rigs right off the bat.

The complete lack of any interaction on analogue FM just destroys any further interest in radio. Personally I get tired of people telling me to buy more expensive equipment or put up antennas where I can't just so I can be part of the gang. No, the issue is not my lack of expensive snob equipment, it's your lack of interaction on 2m/70cm FM that ruins it for everybody who might be interested in the first place.

The death of ham radio (and yes it IS dying dreadfully) is because the nerds and the snobs don't use 2m/70cm FM and if that's all there is to entice the new users at a reasonable price they aren't ever going to buy bigger, more expensive gear just to hear Grumpy Old Bob discuss his anal problems with some other old bugger in Brazil.
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Re: Where have all the Hams gone (VHF)

Post by Ant »

beltane wrote: 18 Sep 2022, 18:42 The biggest problem I see is grumpy old hamsods demanding that you have to spend a lot of money on equipment and have the means and place to put up a big antenna or you don't matter. That's no way to entice anybody into the hobby.

You can get a decent handheld radio for less than £40 now so that should have enticed more people into the hobby, but if all you have is a 2m/70cm HT and a new license you're just going to be all alone because nobody uses the "lesser" bands at all now. A couple of years ago I heard a few people on 2m/70cm but they're all absolutely gone now. Seems that if you can't or won't invest in overly expensive home units, or if you really don't want to just plug in a dongle to a computer and call it "radio" when in fact it's just fancy email, then you're discriminated against.

Radio snobs with pointlessly expensive equipment just don't interact with anybody who's only on a handheld FM radio, so there's no incentive for anybody to dabble in the hobby. 2m/70cm handheld radios have never been cheaper or easier to get, which SHOULD entice people into ham radio, but very few people are going to invest stupid money on extravagant home rigs right off the bat.

The complete lack of any interaction on analogue FM just destroys any further interest in radio. Personally I get tired of people telling me to buy more expensive equipment or put up antennas where I can't just so I can be part of the gang. No, the issue is not my lack of expensive snob equipment, it's your lack of interaction on 2m/70cm FM that ruins it for everybody who might be interested in the first place.

The death of ham radio (and yes it IS dying dreadfully) is because the nerds and the snobs don't use 2m/70cm FM and if that's all there is to entice the new users at a reasonable price they aren't ever going to buy bigger, more expensive gear just to hear Grumpy Old Bob discuss his anal problems with some other old bugger in Brazil.
To be fair, most of the 'old' ones I know aren't that bothered and are quite happy without a massive antenna on a beam, of course if that's what you do have, you will do better.

As for a HT and being alone, the range on a hand held isn't far at all, so if that's all you have, then you won't get very far (apart from a local repeater). I don't know what your experience is exactly, but get up high on a hill and use the FM calling frequencies and you will get responses to calls.

A lot of people still prefer HF SSB and they're not going to use FM locally just because that's all you have, so you can't blame someone for using their HF radio if HF is their passion. But you don't need to spend a lot on it at all.

You've got to remember that it's a hobby, where many people enjoy contacts over a greater distance more than they will the way you want to do it, with FM and a hand held, it's not as fun talking to someone a few streets away on a hand held as it is making contact across the water.
Shack, noun, a small building, usually made of wood or metal, that has not been built well - Oxford Dictionary
A shack (or, less often, shanty) is a type of small, often primitive shelter or dwelling - Wikipedia

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beltane
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Re: Where have all the Hams gone (VHF)

Post by beltane »

I can get a hundred miles easy from a place in the hills near where I live and it's still not much use. I bet there's at least 40 repeaters within my striking distance and seldom is there any activity on any of them so what are they even for? As for person to person operation, I have set my radio on scan for ages at a time and heard not a peep from anywhere within my hundred mile range.

People just don't want to admit that radio is dead and all the old duffers look down their noses at newbies anyway. The whole idea that you're expected to spend lots of money on rigs and have access to put up antennas willy nilly is just elitist nonsense. People like that can go play radio wherever they want, but there's a potential lot of people who will never ever dabble in ham radio because of those assumptions. Radio is an elitist sport, not a friendly hobby. If you can't compete with the rabble and their fancy rigs they don't want to know you, and that attitude just drives people away from radio.

The worst enemy radio has is not legislation or buildings blocking your signal, it's the elitist attitude of the users themselves who run potential new hams off by being twits.
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Re: Where have all the Hams gone (VHF)

Post by Alan Pilot »

A lot have gone digital well plenty on there.
Where i live it's dead on fm on any band 11m or 2m/70cm.
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Re: Where have all the Hams gone (VHF)

Post by Ant »

beltane wrote: 02 Oct 2022, 19:02 I can get a hundred miles easy from a place in the hills near where I live and it's still not much use. I bet there's at least 40 repeaters within my striking distance and seldom is there any activity on any of them so what are they even for? As for person to person operation, I have set my radio on scan for ages at a time and heard not a peep from anywhere within my hundred mile range.

People just don't want to admit that radio is dead and all the old duffers look down their noses at newbies anyway. The whole idea that you're expected to spend lots of money on rigs and have access to put up antennas willy nilly is just elitist nonsense. People like that can go play radio wherever they want, but there's a potential lot of people who will never ever dabble in ham radio because of those assumptions. Radio is an elitist sport, not a friendly hobby. If you can't compete with the rabble and their fancy rigs they don't want to know you, and that attitude just drives people away from radio.

The worst enemy radio has is not legislation or buildings blocking your signal, it's the elitist attitude of the users themselves who run potential new hams off by being twits.
You've set your radio on scan? But, have you put out any calls?

There are loads of people who say they've heard nothing, the one thing they all have in common is that not one of them put out any calls.
Shack, noun, a small building, usually made of wood or metal, that has not been built well - Oxford Dictionary
A shack (or, less often, shanty) is a type of small, often primitive shelter or dwelling - Wikipedia

Licence - British spelling
License - American spelling
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Re: Where have all the Hams gone (VHF)

Post by bonnarn »

So here we are in March 2023, I'm a newly qualified licensee and want to make the following observations based on my limited experience.
1. The RSGB need to move away from an incredibly intense technical based set of exams, in a modern 21st century environment the need to know such complex calculations is long dead - most modern operators buy off the shelf equipment. I don't want to know how inductance works any more than I want to know how the engine of my car works, what's important is that it does.
2. I have been calling CQ since qualifying on 2M & 70cm and the general consensus is that the band is dead or potentially manned by anti M7 snobbery. I say this safe that when I call "radio check" I tend to get blunt responses and no more. I am operating a lovely Yaesu 818 through a pre tuned 2M & 70cm white stick antenna mounted on my roof before you ask. When I have caught a conversation it has always been a 5 & 9 - so that leaves me with the fact I am being ignored as a humble M7.
3. I am surrounded by 3 really strong repeaters - calling 'listening' on these repeaters elicits total silence - again asking for a quick radio check I always get a 5 & 9 reply - at least I know my hardware's good, not the best basis for a hobby that I thought was open any friendly.
In summary - I have to ask have I wasted my money...perhaps, am I wasting my time...probably. Although as I approach retirement I did find a conversation discussing silent keys so maybe that's all I have to look forward to, I'm so glad I didn't buy the stupidly priced radio my local shop advised me to (£2000) at least this way I've only wasted £700 on the radio and antenna oh and a ton of nights listening to nowt but static.
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Re: Where have all the Hams gone (VHF)

Post by Ant »

You don't always get a lot locally on FM. It's nothing to do with M7 snobbery, I'm an M0 and even that doesn't force any obligation for people to be on FM for me to have a chat to. Try HF, you'll be much happier.
Shack, noun, a small building, usually made of wood or metal, that has not been built well - Oxford Dictionary
A shack (or, less often, shanty) is a type of small, often primitive shelter or dwelling - Wikipedia

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Re: Where have all the Hams gone (VHF)

Post by Transwarp »

bonnarn wrote: 10 Mar 2023, 12:19 So here we are in March 2023, I'm a newly qualified licensee and want to make the following observations based on my limited experience.
1. The RSGB need to move away from an incredibly intense technical based set of exams, in a modern 21st century environment the need to know such complex calculations is long dead - most modern operators buy off the shelf equipment. I don't want to know how inductance works any more than I want to know how the engine of my car works, what's important is that it does.
2. I have been calling CQ since qualifying on 2M & 70cm and the general consensus is that the band is dead or potentially manned by anti M7 snobbery. I say this safe that when I call "radio check" I tend to get blunt responses and no more. I am operating a lovely Yaesu 818 through a pre tuned 2M & 70cm white stick antenna mounted on my roof before you ask. When I have caught a conversation it has always been a 5 & 9 - so that leaves me with the fact I am being ignored as a humble M7.
3. I am surrounded by 3 really strong repeaters - calling 'listening' on these repeaters elicits total silence - again asking for a quick radio check I always get a 5 & 9 reply - at least I know my hardware's good, not the best basis for a hobby that I thought was open any friendly.
In summary - I have to ask have I wasted my money...perhaps, am I wasting my time...probably. Although as I approach retirement I did find a conversation discussing silent keys so maybe that's all I have to look forward to, I'm so glad I didn't buy the stupidly priced radio my local shop advised me to (£2000) at least this way I've only wasted £700 on the radio and antenna oh and a ton of nights listening to nowt but static.
First of all congratulations on passing and welcome to the forum.

Regarding the deflation you feel about manner and conduct towards foundation licence operators from others, who l'm guessing are full ticket operators you're referring to, l wouldn't let it bother you in the slightest. I've been an M3 for the best part of 20 years, and in that time you name it and I've had said to me over the air (and even on this forum to a certain degree) but it just went in one ear and out the other - and still does - but rare it happens to me these days.

You've earned the right to operate on the bands your licence allows so go right ahead and enjoy it. Those that don't want to talk with you or are of poor manner towards then just don't bother with them or let them bother you!

2m and 70cm were always my favourite but as the years have gone by they've become very little used from my neck of the woods and l found myself using HF, 6m, 4m more. I've used digital modes but not really my cup of tea, guess because l'm old school analogue.

Explore the different bands and modes, it'll take some time to give most a fair crack of the whip, but if you have an interest in radio you'll stick at it, because you have to be interested in radio imo to play radio, but if you're the type who just wants something to turn on now and again for a chit chat then ham radio l think wouldn't be for you, CB would fit the bill better in that case.

Don't let others put you off from exploring though, because they don't matter, and it's them types that shouldn't be on the air anyway.

Enjoy!
Last edited by Transwarp on 16 Mar 2023, 20:05, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Where have all the Hams gone (VHF)

Post by Piggly »

Welcome to the hobby and don't be dispondant!

2m and 70cm FM tend to be quiet, with even local activity on repeaters being generally a bit thin. With the 817/8 you have access to SSB and this would be something to try, especially when the activity contests are on. You could look up any nearby clubs and whether they have a 2m or 70cm net at all...most clubs are more than happy to welcome new people on their nets, plus the clubs can be quite interesting in their own right.

It might be worth thinking about a simple HF antenna if you have space, with the EFHW being generally liked and simple to set up with little faffing involved...activity on HF does tend to be rather better, partly because the area covered is typically much larger.

Don't give up just yet!

BTW, whereabouts are you? I'm often on 2m and 70cm during the day and I have a decent site for take off around here.
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