PMR into private repeater?

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stinkybob
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PMR into private repeater?

Post by stinkybob »

I've been trying to get to the bottom of this for a while. It's no use asking the cardigan mafia anything as their immediate response to any radio related question is "NO- THAT IS ABSOLUTELY FORBIDDEN!" before you even get to the end of your sentence. Coupled with the fact that I am merely a lowly M7 licensee anything I say or ask about radio at all whether on air or in person gets immediately shot down in flames by sour, twisted old buggers who think the foundation license is the work of Satan.

So...

Could I legitimately use a .5w PMR446 walkie talkie to access my own 10w crossband repeater while out camping or hiking or something? For instance, walkie talkie in my pocket and crossband HT back at my car.

I have a ham handie that does crossband repeat. I don't see why I couldn't use a .5w PMR radio, which is license free so no restriction on how I use it or what I say, to access the crossband HT to rebroadcast on legitimate ham bands. There is nothing that says I can not give out my callsign on PMR, which I would have to do anyway if I was accessing the handie to re-broadcast on ham bands.

Now, I realize that my crossband repeater HT could possibly be accessed by anybody else with a PMR radio, but I could use ctcss for the crossband ham handie so nobody but me would have access, but even if somebody else did guess my ctcss tones and run home and reprogram their PMR radio to use them and then actually come running back and get close enough to access my crossband HT on .5w out in the middle of a bleak, windswept Yorkshire landscape then surely THEY are the ones legally in the wrong and not me. So as far as I can tell there's no reason why I couldn't use a half watt PMR radio to crossband into and out of a legitimate crossband ham radio.

The next step of course is to hook up my 10,000w amplifier and call Siberia on marine channels that not only disrupts worldwide shipping but somehow also causes the space station to plummet to Earth in a fireball.

OK, I just said that last bit for the cardigan mafia's benefit.
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Metradio
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Re: PMR into private repeater?

Post by Metradio »

Why not just do 70 to 2 cross band ? that way you keep it legal... Back in the day when we had radio club foxhunts and if I was the fox I would park in a pub car park, switch the x band repeater on in the car and sit in the pub, then transmit every so often from the comfort of the pub on one band and the vehicle would repeat on the other, till the hunters found my vehicle and joined me in the pub - or gave up..
That is unless you are thinking of linking other PMR446 users onto a ham band, that would introduce other problems.
Many people make use of mobile and fixed cross band repeaters for various uses, the difference is they don't talk about it on an open forum - or use easily found frequencies...

Mike
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stinkybob
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Re: PMR into private repeater?

Post by stinkybob »

Oh yes I know I can just use another handy to access the repeater in the car or whatever. In fact I've even got a little 2w HT that fits that role just fine. The thing is, I can't see why accessing it on half watt PMR would technically be against any rules. It's not that I'm trying to specifically do something dodgy, I just wondered if it could be done using a PMR radio instead of another HT. I can't find any real information about this so maybe it's just a gray area that most people never even think about and there aren't any specific rules about the matter. I know it can be done, but if it's technically against some rules then I'd like to know what those rules are and why.
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Metradio
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Re: PMR into private repeater?

Post by Metradio »

Been there, done it - although a few years ago.. It is all on Ofcom's site.
You might find it useful to look at a Business Radio (Simple UK) Licence, 5 years for £75 and as many terminals as you want, you can even get away using encryption..

Mike
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Mitch
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Re: PMR into private repeater?

Post by Mitch »

There are things to consider when crossbanding/remote operation of ham radio. The rules state that you can only use ham frequencies so 446 would be against the rules, just to clarify, here's the relevent part of EX309 regs:
10 Unattended and remote control operation
10(1) The Licensee may conduct Unattended Operation of Radio Equipment provided that any such operation is
consistent with the terms of this Licence. Additional restrictions which apply to the Unattended Operation of
Beacons are specified in Schedule 2 to this Licence.
10(2) Subject to Clause 10(3), the Licensee may also conduct Remote Control Operation of Radio Equipment
(including, for the avoidance of doubt, Beacons) provided that any such operation is consistent with the terms of
this Licence.
10(3) This Clause 10 does not permit the Licensee to install Radio Equipment capable of Remote Control
Operation for general unsupervised use by other Amateurs.
10(4) Any communication links4 used to control the Radio Equipment or to carry Messages to or from the Radio
Equipment in accordance with Clause 10(2) must be adequately secure so as to ensure compliance with Clause
3 of this Licence. Any security measures must be consistent with Clause 11(2) of this Licence.
10(5) The use of any such communication links referred to in Clause 10(4) must be failsafe such that any failure
will not result in unintended transmissions or any transmissions of a type not permitted by this Licence.
10(6) If this Licence is a Foundation Licence or an Intermediate Licence, and the Licensee wishes to establish
communication links to operate the Radio Equipment in accordance with Clause 10(4), then the Licensee may
only do so using wireless communication links and the Licensee may only use the amateur band allocations
detailed in Schedule 16 to operate those links. Any such communications links shall be subject to a maximum
power level of 500 mW pep e.r.p.

10(7) Only where this Licence is a Full Licence, Full (Reciprocal) Licence, Full (Temporary Reciprocal) Licence
or a Full (Club) Licence, the Licensee may make use of any communications links (including, for the avoidance
of doubt, the amateur band allocations detailed in Schedule 15) to establish the wireless communication links
referred to in Clause 10(4).
I don't want to spoil your fun of course, and I've done crossbanding myself from 446 to 27 when I had a quad band radio, and it worked, but not recommended. But still, ham radio is for experimenting and I won't tell if you don't :D
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26mb04
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Re: PMR into private repeater?

Post by 26mb04 »

It's definitely possible but as mentioned by Mitch, 446 would be a dodgy choice. Using a ham band would actually be better though, not only would it be better protected from idiots trying to crack the input CTCSS/DCS, it would actually be illegal for them to do that on a ham allocation with the intention of gaining access to your link. On 446 this would be OK, because it's an unprotected allocation and it'd probably be your fault for running a (licenseable) link over it. Remember, you don't *have* to use an allocation intended for remote links, you can use whatever ham freq you like (within reason).
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grafter
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Re: PMR into private repeater?

Post by grafter »

A crossband HT in the car transmitting on 446 wouldn't meet EN 303 405 spec rendering it illegal for TX.
my friend grafter, seems like you are using a very offensive tone in the reply.
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Metradio
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Re: PMR into private repeater?

Post by Metradio »

grafter wrote: 31 Dec 2021, 17:50 A crossband HT in the car transmitting on 446 wouldn't meet EN 303 405 spec rendering it illegal for TX.
I think the OP might possibly have guessed that :D

Mike
Connect Systems CS750 and CS800, Hytera PD-365, Motorola DP4600.
Raspberry Pi 2 and DV4Mini HotSpot.
AOR AR-DV1 Digital Voice Receiver / eSPY on ARD V1.

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grafter
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Re: PMR into private repeater?

Post by grafter »

stinkybob wrote: 28 Dec 2021, 21:09 Could I legitimately use a .5w PMR446 walkie talkie to access my own 10w crossband repeater while out camping or hiking or something?
Then why ask this question?
my friend grafter, seems like you are using a very offensive tone in the reply.
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