When is a marine radio not a marine radio?
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When is a marine radio not a marine radio?
I don't have a boat, probably will never have one, but I am interested in SAR and Raynet type things. I have a ham radio license and the ship's radio portable license with an MMSI number and all the rest of it.
My question is, why couldn't I use a simple VHF radio as opposed to a marine radio, if the HT was programmed with the marine channels and restricted to the appropriate power?
It says in the licensing waffle that "the radio equipment used shall only be used on ship frequencies and to the maximum powers and classes of emission allocated in accordance with the relevant International Telecommunication Union (ITU) Radio Regulations and ITU-R Recommendations within the frequency bands".
Can I assume then that I could for instance get a cheap 16 channel VHF radio without a keyboard and program the marine channels into it and that would be OK? It's impossible to change the frequency on these radios on the fly without a keyboard so I don't see why this wouldn't be acceptable.
My question is, why couldn't I use a simple VHF radio as opposed to a marine radio, if the HT was programmed with the marine channels and restricted to the appropriate power?
It says in the licensing waffle that "the radio equipment used shall only be used on ship frequencies and to the maximum powers and classes of emission allocated in accordance with the relevant International Telecommunication Union (ITU) Radio Regulations and ITU-R Recommendations within the frequency bands".
Can I assume then that I could for instance get a cheap 16 channel VHF radio without a keyboard and program the marine channels into it and that would be OK? It's impossible to change the frequency on these radios on the fly without a keyboard so I don't see why this wouldn't be acceptable.
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Re: When is a marine radio not a marine radio?
Does it have the same water resistant features as a marine radio ?
Can it be operated with a gloved hand ?
Mike
Can it be operated with a gloved hand ?
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Re: When is a marine radio not a marine radio?
Are you want to transmit? Or just RX
If RX you can use every receiver or HT with the correct frequencies
If you want to TX you will have to be on the water or in the marina with a approved HT as that's where the marine bands are for; communications between boats / marina's / coastguard and not land to land communication
If RX you can use every receiver or HT with the correct frequencies
If you want to TX you will have to be on the water or in the marina with a approved HT as that's where the marine bands are for; communications between boats / marina's / coastguard and not land to land communication
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Re: When is a marine radio not a marine radio?
I've seen loads of Icom IC2020's re-purposed as marine VHF radios. The main problem is that marine channels are often split frequencies, so you'd need to enter the correct TX and RX for each channel. I think Marine is also wide deviation (5 kHz), although I could be wrong. As far as build quality is concerned, ex-PMR gear can be equally well made. Probably not waterproof, but no different if it's used in a cabin or something. I think if it comes to it, the coastguard would rather you have a radio of some kind than one with the correct stickers on it. There are some other technical issues to consider:
A non-marine radio won't have the all the markings that insurance companies like to see (the Wheel logo, etc). This probably won't be an issue, but worth looking into.
It probably won't have DCS, dual watch, etc.
A non-marine radio won't have the all the markings that insurance companies like to see (the Wheel logo, etc). This probably won't be an issue, but worth looking into.
It probably won't have DCS, dual watch, etc.
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Re: When is a marine radio not a marine radio?
If used on salt water don't under estimate the salt corrosion effect on electronics not designed for it
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Re: When is a marine radio not a marine radio?
Forgot about the Marine Band FM deviation, it is 25Khz RX spec with 5Khz TX..
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Re: When is a marine radio not a marine radio?
Ive used alsorts of radios on marine freqs... tbh once programmed up the average commercial set is no diff to a dedicated marine radio for basic comms..save the instant 16 button... i use either an Entel or Standard Horizon set wen im in the tender...both marine sets n waterproof although they still reside in waterproof radio bags....and yes both modded to do ch0 and the 6 RNLI 'Y' boat channels.(im nosey)
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Re: When is a marine radio not a marine radio?
I'll have to get out my old Seavoice RT 550 transceivers sometime and have a listen. The only active channel I ever received was 156.700 MHz Thames barrier in London.
I have two RT Seavoice transceivers, one wasn't working at all "salt water damage" but I got it going again by resoldering damaged tracks and replacing some components on the damaged areas of the board and its all working well now.
The other Seavoice RT 550 is in very good condition and works well.
I have two RT Seavoice transceivers, one wasn't working at all "salt water damage" but I got it going again by resoldering damaged tracks and replacing some components on the damaged areas of the board and its all working well now.
The other Seavoice RT 550 is in very good condition and works well.
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Re: When is a marine radio not a marine radio?
In practice, marine performance varies wildly - there are still a few using ancient kit on the 50KHz spacing with very loud and distorted results - but most operators just drifted into the hold the mic a long way away mode. Business radio withe 12.5KHz/2.5KHz deviation just sounds a bit quiet, and older ham kit is pretty much the same as marine. Most business and modern ham kit fits in - and the UK standard, for example just requires equipment to meet EMC standards, so not go over the deviation standard or interfere with adjacent channels. It's common for users who do not need multiple frequencies - like the marinas and offices to use business radio.
I sell one very tough business radio to marine users. It's a little low in deviation but has plenty of receive audio volume. It's IP67 and very tough - but price wise - it offers a lot for the money. Most marine users just want simplicity so BIG LEDs chunky knobs are the thing. Ham gear with mega functions are unwanted. Most importantly - marine users have NO idea about frequencies, so they get asked to go to channel 10, and they want to see 10 in a display. 156.500MHz is useless information. Some marine radios also allow access to both of the duplex channels - so you might get a display of 37, 37A and 37B (although B is rarer) 37 probably won't be in all marine radios. It's a UK marina channel and unused in many parts - but if you need it, you need it. Another channel that causes grief is M1 - another marina channel but it is not ch1, M1 is different and non-marine radios may not be able to display the M.
The other thing is the requirement to be able to listen on 16, but you might want to listen on 14 too - so dual watch and triple watch facilities are useful - but these are not on non-marine radios.
You mentioned MMSI - handhelds with GPS, the ability to float and a big red emergency button can be got for less than 150 GBP. I sell lots to leisure boaters simply because of the safety thing. You can press the button and help will arrive. I happily use my Icom IC-32 that I bought in the 80s on marine.
I sell one very tough business radio to marine users. It's a little low in deviation but has plenty of receive audio volume. It's IP67 and very tough - but price wise - it offers a lot for the money. Most marine users just want simplicity so BIG LEDs chunky knobs are the thing. Ham gear with mega functions are unwanted. Most importantly - marine users have NO idea about frequencies, so they get asked to go to channel 10, and they want to see 10 in a display. 156.500MHz is useless information. Some marine radios also allow access to both of the duplex channels - so you might get a display of 37, 37A and 37B (although B is rarer) 37 probably won't be in all marine radios. It's a UK marina channel and unused in many parts - but if you need it, you need it. Another channel that causes grief is M1 - another marina channel but it is not ch1, M1 is different and non-marine radios may not be able to display the M.
The other thing is the requirement to be able to listen on 16, but you might want to listen on 14 too - so dual watch and triple watch facilities are useful - but these are not on non-marine radios.
You mentioned MMSI - handhelds with GPS, the ability to float and a big red emergency button can be got for less than 150 GBP. I sell lots to leisure boaters simply because of the safety thing. You can press the button and help will arrive. I happily use my Icom IC-32 that I bought in the 80s on marine.
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Re: When is a marine radio not a marine radio?
After looking into it a bit further I think the lowly Baofeng UV-3R might be the way to go, programmed with marine channels for mainly monitoring in a disaster or rescue situation and only ever transmitting if it's in an emergency. I'm interested in getting into SAR and Raynet and things of that sort but I'm not likely to be on boats, however I might want to know what they're up to. I've already got two perfectly good dual band handhelds for proper ham radio use so maybe a little UV3R on marine channels and PMR "just in case" might be what I'm after.
They are cheap radios, about 2 watts, no keypad, minimal complication, I think something like 99 memories and apparently even have a dedicated go-to channel which could be programmed as marine channel 16 with the rest of the memory channels programmed to correspond to whatever number they are called on a marine radio so basically I'd have a cheap marine/PMR scanner that wasn't waterproof and could still be used as a ham radio in a pinch if need be.
They are cheap radios, about 2 watts, no keypad, minimal complication, I think something like 99 memories and apparently even have a dedicated go-to channel which could be programmed as marine channel 16 with the rest of the memory channels programmed to correspond to whatever number they are called on a marine radio so basically I'd have a cheap marine/PMR scanner that wasn't waterproof and could still be used as a ham radio in a pinch if need be.
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Re: When is a marine radio not a marine radio?
SAR and Raynet use a fair bit of DMR, though a fair bit is encrypted..
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Re: When is a marine radio not a marine radio?
If you can stick the marine numbers into a radio so they pop up on the display, it should work fine. even better, Baofengs usually have pretty wide filters so you should not get any snags with over deviated calls. I have an old Icom H16 and it's useless on marine. Overdeviated signals just cut-out and vanish. 12.5KHz radio is fine.
I was on a boat today, using my ham radio as a check receiver and while the maths is easy on the low channels - as in 156.3 is channel 6 and 156.7 is channel 14, it gets complicated once you go above a certain channel and start using the interleaved ones - so your memory number sounds a good thing to do.
I was on a boat today, using my ham radio as a check receiver and while the maths is easy on the low channels - as in 156.3 is channel 6 and 156.7 is channel 14, it gets complicated once you go above a certain channel and start using the interleaved ones - so your memory number sounds a good thing to do.
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Re: When is a marine radio not a marine radio?
Marine radio is Marine radio until Werthers tells everyone to use it as CB..
but seriously, if you own a boat your advised to get a Marine licence.
if you don't own a boat you shouldn't be able to get a marine licence, like you can't have a UK general licence unless you have a reason to use UK general..
BUT if you're an Amateur you don't actually need a specific licence to use Marine or UK general......check your terms and conditions, you can use them as long as there is a genuine reason to..
but seriously, if you own a boat your advised to get a Marine licence.
if you don't own a boat you shouldn't be able to get a marine licence, like you can't have a UK general licence unless you have a reason to use UK general..
BUT if you're an Amateur you don't actually need a specific licence to use Marine or UK general......check your terms and conditions, you can use them as long as there is a genuine reason to..
Last edited by bigpimp347 on 22 Jul 2021, 12:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: When is a marine radio not a marine radio?
No that’s not true. Anyone, under worldwide laws can use ANY radio system without fear of prosecution in a genuine emergency, usually categorised by real or potential danger of loss of life to humans. Note this does not cover animals or property, in essence, examples where mayday would be used in marine or aviation.
I have had a marine personal licence in the uk for 20 years and a testing and demonstration marine licence for 15 years. I’ve had a ham licence since 1979. Last year I renewed my marine licence online but had a query so called OFCOM. Ah she said you need to enter the date of your exam. What exam? I had to go on a one day marine course with a visiting examiner and do the practical test. That is the rule here. Free licence, paid for test.
Oddly, Marine is a strange band. The professional mariners operate very differently, and the leisure boaters have in general no operating procedures and a superior attitude. Some behave very badly, and others simply should not be at sea. Fisherman use radio for chat, to their friends. They are very non technical and yesterday I spent the morning fixing things on a fishing vessel. I fixed the dodgy antenna, I sorted the accidental switch to US channels and hopefully fixed the low audio volume from other vessel reports. He was holding the mic down near the steering wheel so he could steer and talk with one hand. Only revealed when we went out of the harbour as in port it seemed fine.
Amateur operation in the US, as far as I can see has NO special privileges i can find. The emergency use is not something that lets you use marine band as a normal user. You need a licence. US seems the same as UK. Not sure about your exam though?
I have had a marine personal licence in the uk for 20 years and a testing and demonstration marine licence for 15 years. I’ve had a ham licence since 1979. Last year I renewed my marine licence online but had a query so called OFCOM. Ah she said you need to enter the date of your exam. What exam? I had to go on a one day marine course with a visiting examiner and do the practical test. That is the rule here. Free licence, paid for test.
Oddly, Marine is a strange band. The professional mariners operate very differently, and the leisure boaters have in general no operating procedures and a superior attitude. Some behave very badly, and others simply should not be at sea. Fisherman use radio for chat, to their friends. They are very non technical and yesterday I spent the morning fixing things on a fishing vessel. I fixed the dodgy antenna, I sorted the accidental switch to US channels and hopefully fixed the low audio volume from other vessel reports. He was holding the mic down near the steering wheel so he could steer and talk with one hand. Only revealed when we went out of the harbour as in port it seemed fine.
Amateur operation in the US, as far as I can see has NO special privileges i can find. The emergency use is not something that lets you use marine band as a normal user. You need a licence. US seems the same as UK. Not sure about your exam though?
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Re: When is a marine radio not a marine radio?
As far as I can tell, there's no reason why I can't just get a cheap Baofeng or even the better TYT UV-3R (both have the same model number) and program it with marine channels. I don't have a boat and I doubt if I'm ever going fishing on one either, so it's literally going to be for mostly scanner purposes unless I find any other use like going on boating holiday or something, which is fairly unlikely. Mainly it's all just to get me more acquainted with SAR and things in case I decide to move into that field in the future. As they say, there's nothing preventing me from listening.
Yes I do intend to go on the short marine radio course when I can ever find one open. A lot of them around here aren't operating at the moment so I either have to wait until they are or travel to Wales or somewhere for a couple of days to do a course. Sounds like a good reason for a holiday anyway so I don't mind.
Yes I do intend to go on the short marine radio course when I can ever find one open. A lot of them around here aren't operating at the moment so I either have to wait until they are or travel to Wales or somewhere for a couple of days to do a course. Sounds like a good reason for a holiday anyway so I don't mind.