OFCONNED

A place to discuss the amateur radio licence, training and examination.
MorseMan
Super Member
Super Member
Posts: 113
Joined: 27 Sep 2020, 16:55
Call Sign: 26TM2806

OFCONNED

Post by MorseMan »

Recently i requested to reinstate my old class B callsign with OFCOM.
It's much nicer on the key to send .

OFCOM say I must hand in my class A licence & wait 2 years before I can apply for it.

The reason for this is they say a callsign is associated with a station for 2 years after surrender & a station can only hold 1class A callsign.

I put in a freedom of information request & found 731 amateurs still hold both A & B callsign (Excluding club call holders who can hold them)....These are now both class A since 2003.

OFCOM say they will not revoke any of these unless they are not validated. (Double standards)

This is ridiculous red tape & is one reason I came back to CB.

My 27 year B old call is locked until 2022 because i asked about it & so is the one i surrendered .

Would you believe I am not Even allowed to sit a foundation exam to take out a license to run QRP for a couple of years, OFCOM stated they would not knowingly issue another licence to me whatever class because I already have one. (No I don't, I surrendered it !)

They say every station must have unique identification for locating it in case of interference.

This is impossible as you can transmit anywhere in England without using /A or /P & you don't have to give a location (It's optional)
The callsign is unique to me not the station, unlike a boat where the call actually belongs to the station, So I am an operator with a unique identity not a station..

I have carefully read through paperwork sent to me & it is written in a very ambiguous way.

I have argued that an OFCOM policy is not binding if it misrepresents & misquoted radio telecommunications regulations.

It appears you have no way to appeal any decision they make.

So it looks like I'm stuffed !

Anyone else suffered with this stupidity ?
User avatar
Mikel
Radio Addict
Radio Addict
Posts: 715
Joined: 18 May 2009, 08:40
Location: South East Wales IO81jo

Re: OFCONNED

Post by Mikel »

Good luck with that, but I am pretty sure OFCOM have minimal interest in any aspect of amateur radio any longer and are more interested in raking in the money from spectrum sales to mobile phone companies.

For example In April 2018 OFCOM completed the spectrum auction of the 2.3 and 3.4 GHz bands, which raised a profit of £1.3 billion for the Government!

How much money do they make off amateur radio? Yes, that's right, a big fat zero

A further example. Someone recently submitted an FOI request to OFCOM regarding 'The number of reports of deliberate jamming, use of foul language, or language that would be considered a ‘Hate Crime'

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/ ... ervice.pdf

Part of the reply from OFCOM is quite interesting:

'Please note that, although the Amateur Radio Licence (Note (h)) mentions the Wireless Telegraphy (Content of Transmission) Regulations 1988, we are not responsible for regulating the content of Amateur Radio services as this is neither a function nor a duty under the Wireless Telegraphy Act 2006 (“the WTA”) or the Communications Act 2003'

Hold on, I was under the impression that OFCOM were the regulator and if they say they are 'not responsible for regulating the content of Amateur Radio services', then who exactly is?

Amateur radio is just a meaningless hobby theses days in the eyes of OFCOM, we are just a bunch of wierdos using kids walkie talkies as far as they are concerned.

How many people have given up on the hobby because the local noise level from various devices is so high that it becomes hopeless? What are OFCOM doing about this interference to amateur radio, that is supposedly a legitimate licensed service?

What is the point of even making the effort to pass en exam or three and get a legitimate license, you may as well pick a callsign that you fancy and then look on the lists below to see if it has been allocated or not, if not then Bob's your uncle and Fanny's your aunt, who will care or know that you are a pirate? Certainly not OFCOM!

Ofcom call sign database as at March 26, 2020
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/ ... signs.xlsx

There is also a file on this page of Allocated reserved forbidden Call Signs:
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... ng-1433381
................................................................................................2W0NBF.........................................................
MorseMan
Super Member
Super Member
Posts: 113
Joined: 27 Sep 2020, 16:55
Call Sign: 26TM2806

Re: OFCONNED

Post by MorseMan »

What I find ridiculous is their own documentation says a call must be off air for 2 years before it can be reissued, In my mind my old call has been off air 27 years so should be eligible for instant issue.

I can't see why once you surrender a license you have to wait unless you want that surrendered call back.

Unfortunately OFCOM disagrees.
MorseMan
Super Member
Super Member
Posts: 113
Joined: 27 Sep 2020, 16:55
Call Sign: 26TM2806

Re: OFCONNED

Post by MorseMan »

Mikel wrote: 30 Oct 2020, 09:06 Good luck with that, but I am pretty sure OFCOM have minimal interest in any aspect of amateur radio any longer and are more interested in raking in the money from spectrum sales to mobile phone companies.

For example In April 2018 OFCOM completed the spectrum auction of the 2.3 and 3.4 GHz bands, which raised a profit of £1.3 billion for the Government!

How much money do they make off amateur radio? Yes, that's right, a big fat zero

A further example. Someone recently submitted an FOI request to OFCOM regarding 'The number of reports of deliberate jamming, use of foul language, or language that would be considered a ‘Hate Crime'

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/ ... ervice.pdf

Part of the reply from OFCOM is quite interesting:

'Please note that, although the Amateur Radio Licence (Note (h)) mentions the Wireless Telegraphy (Content of Transmission) Regulations 1988, we are not responsible for regulating the content of Amateur Radio services as this is neither a function nor a duty under the Wireless Telegraphy Act 2006 (“the WTA”) or the Communications Act 2003'

Hold on, I was under the impression that OFCOM were the regulator and if they say they are 'not responsible for regulating the content of Amateur Radio services', then who exactly is?

Amateur radio is just a meaningless hobby theses days in the eyes of OFCOM, we are just a bunch of wierdos using kids walkie talkies as far as they are concerned.

How many people have given up on the hobby because the local noise level from various devices is so high that it becomes hopeless? What are OFCOM doing about this interference to amateur radio, that is supposedly a legitimate licensed service?

What is the point of even making the effort to pass en exam or three and get a legitimate license, you may as well pick a callsign that you fancy and then look on the lists below to see if it has been allocated or not, if not then Bob's your uncle and Fanny's your aunt, who will care or know that you are a pirate? Certainly not OFCOM!

Ofcom call sign database as at March 26, 2020
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/ ... signs.xlsx

There is also a file on this page of Allocated reserved forbidden Call Signs:
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... ng-1433381
I have horrendous noise at my QTH so use QRP portable... Well I did.

Doing away with the £15 license fee technically removed protection & gave a better opportunity to change things.

It was pretty much AROS that policed the bands with OFCOM stepping in when needed.

As the situation is I'm tempted to just pick a callsign & use it.

Not wishing to do this I have come back on CB.
26mb04
Super Member
Super Member
Posts: 236
Joined: 23 Nov 2017, 20:14
Call Sign: 26DG01
Location: Democratic Peoples Republic of Devon

Re: OFCONNED

Post by 26mb04 »

If I read correctly, I think there are two issues here:

1: You have another (ham) callsign already;
2: Ofcom now don't like issuing more than one ham callsign per person.

Yes, there are loads of people with more than one ham callsign. I'm pretty sure there was a moratorium on multiple callsigns a few years ago. If you had more than one you could keep them, but they're not issuing more than one now.

This doesn't help you get your old one back though. There are obviously a few options you could take, with varying levels of legality:

1: Carry on with your class A;

2: Give up your class A, do the time, get your class B back. You can use CB/446 in the mean time;

3: As far as I'm aware, ofcom don't re-issue callsigns. They also
are not responsible for or regulating the content of Amateur Radio services
You can work that one out... ;)
Sent from my GP300 using DTMF
User avatar
Mikel
Radio Addict
Radio Addict
Posts: 715
Joined: 18 May 2009, 08:40
Location: South East Wales IO81jo

Re: OFCONNED

Post by Mikel »

I am pretty sure OFCOM do indeed re-issue callsigns you just have to make a special request to them.

A good example is the callsign G5YL, this has been 'owned' by 3 amateurs in total.

First by a guy called Benjamin Hesketh in the 1920's and then Miss P.E.M. Bryan in the 1930's and now it is 'owned' by a lady called Krystyna Haywood.

Her QRZ page is here if you want to see the interesting and fascinating history attached to this callsign and how she asked OFCOM for it and it was granted:

https://www.qrz.com/DB/G5YL

Krystyna's experience is not unique, many people have requested and have been granted old callsigns that may have a sentimental value, for example a deceased relatives old call.

Also if you pass the foundation, the intermediate and the advanced exams you will have 3 callsigns, which you are entitled to keep if you so wish.
................................................................................................2W0NBF.........................................................
26mb04
Super Member
Super Member
Posts: 236
Joined: 23 Nov 2017, 20:14
Call Sign: 26DG01
Location: Democratic Peoples Republic of Devon

Re: OFCONNED

Post by 26mb04 »

Well, who knew? Thanks for that.
Sent from my GP300 using DTMF
MorseMan
Super Member
Super Member
Posts: 113
Joined: 27 Sep 2020, 16:55
Call Sign: 26TM2806

Re: OFCONNED

Post by MorseMan »

26mb04 wrote: 30 Oct 2020, 12:55 If I read correctly, I think there are two issues here:

1: You have another (ham) callsign already;
2: Ofcom now don't like issuing more than one ham callsign per person.

Yes, there are loads of people with more than one ham callsign. I'm pretty sure there was a moratorium on multiple callsigns a few years ago. If you had more than one you could keep them, but they're not issuing more than one now.

This doesn't help you get your old one back though. There are obviously a few options you could take, with varying levels of legality:

1: Carry on with your class A;

2: Give up your class A, do the time, get your class B back. You can use CB/446 in the mean time;

3: As far as I'm aware, ofcom don't re-issue callsigns. They also
are not responsible for or regulating the content of Amateur Radio services
You can work that one out... ;)
There are 731 A class license holders that have both A & B class calls active, Both of which are now A class.
I obtained this under the freedom of information act.

OFCOME told me I am allowed to reinstate my old call if I surrendered the one i hold.

The wording in the reissue callsign documentation states it must have been inactive for 2 years to be reissued.
It hasn't been used for 27 years but because I asked about it some idiot reserved somthing i already own , effectively banning its use for a further 2 years.

Handing back the call I have now means I couldn't say " Can i have it back for 2 years ? "
That ones locked as well.
MorseMan
Super Member
Super Member
Posts: 113
Joined: 27 Sep 2020, 16:55
Call Sign: 26TM2806

Re: OFCONNED

Post by MorseMan »

Mikel wrote: 30 Oct 2020, 15:20 I am pretty sure OFCOM do indeed re-issue callsigns you just have to make a special request to them.

A good example is the callsign G5YL, this has been 'owned' by 3 amateurs in total.

First by a guy called Benjamin Hesketh in the 1920's and then Miss P.E.M. Bryan in the 1930's and now it is 'owned' by a lady called Krystyna Haywood.

Her QRZ page is here if you want to see the interesting and fascinating history attached to this callsign and how she asked OFCOM for it and it was granted:

https://www.qrz.com/DB/G5YL

Krystyna's experience is not unique, many people have requested and have been granted old callsigns that may have a sentimental value, for example a deceased relatives old call.

Also if you pass the foundation, the intermediate and the advanced exams you will have 3 callsigns, which you are entitled to keep if you so wish.
I think that's where the 2 year rule comes in.
It used to be callsigns could only be passed on with permission.

I know quite a few of the new 3 tier license guys keep all 3 calls if they decide to upgrade to full licence holder, This really is of no benefit as technically if you use your foundation call then you can only use 10w of power. (Not that some foundation holders dont bend the power limit a little)

I should have just applied for it at my perents address.
MorseMan
Super Member
Super Member
Posts: 113
Joined: 27 Sep 2020, 16:55
Call Sign: 26TM2806

Re: OFCONNED

Post by MorseMan »

If you hold more than 1 call then don't forget to revalidate it.

OFCOM told me they revoke all lapsed calls & will not knowingly reissue.
Ant
Super Member
Super Member
Posts: 397
Joined: 04 Oct 2007, 18:38
Call Sign: 26TM718
Location: England

Re: OFCONNED

Post by Ant »

Is this so that you can lord it up over the M7s?

Sorry, poor joke (off the back of the other thread)
Shack, noun, a small building, usually made of wood or metal, that has not been built well - Oxford Dictionary
A shack (or, less often, shanty) is a type of small, often primitive shelter or dwelling - Wikipedia

Licence - British spelling
License - American spelling
MorseMan
Super Member
Super Member
Posts: 113
Joined: 27 Sep 2020, 16:55
Call Sign: 26TM2806

Re: OFCONNED

Post by MorseMan »

Ant wrote: 30 Oct 2020, 22:45 Is this so that you can lord it up over the M7s?

Sorry, poor joke (off the back of the other thread)
Hobby needs new blood to survive.
So do RSGB & radio dealers.
I well remember the RSGB asking it's members if the morse code should be kept as a requirement for HF access, The telecommunication union left it to each individual country to decide.
The survey found a majority wanted the morse test kept.
Guess where most of the Radcom money comes from ! YES you've got it dealers adverts.....

I was reliably informed by someone who worked within at the time that dealers pushed for the test to be scrapped... KERCHING HF SALES !

Probably the same nowadays, Any new licence = sales.
Does it matter if people don't build anything & buy ready built KERCHING !

Does it matter if the entry levels are different now ?
To some yes but let's face it everybody comes into the hobby by passing the technical exam at the level set by a countries regulations, So don't play your face that they have a licence.

I look down on nobody & have trained amateurs at all levels for the exams.

Unfortunately my preferred mode is CW due to its ability to work QRP DX but many amateurs don't venture on to this mode.

I have worked a few foundation calls on the key & it doesn't matter to me if it's sent from a keyboard, pump key or paddle so long as it's well sent & the characters are sent at 15wpm.

Slow morse is difficult to read.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by MorseMan on 31 Oct 2020, 11:20, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Mikel
Radio Addict
Radio Addict
Posts: 715
Joined: 18 May 2009, 08:40
Location: South East Wales IO81jo

Re: OFCONNED

Post by Mikel »

Judging by the local stations around here and by local I mean a 30 mile radius, many non licensed users on PMR446 and 11m are using widebanded HF rigs and BIG amplifiers. Some of these were bought brand new from dealers.

2m, 10m and 70cm are pretty dead from my location but 446 and 11m are teeming with life. If I call CQ on 2m, 10m or 70cm, rarely does anyone come back to me, but when I hear someone call out on 11m CB or PMR446, they get a reply pretty much straight away!

Pirate activity is greater than I have ever known it since the early 80's, at least around here through the summer it was, and that is most definitely keeping the dealers tills ringing big time, and I'm not talking about £20 walkie talkies, or a second hand Harrier CBX with a Zetagi B47 here.

But what is the point of getting licensed, if HF is pretty much wiped out by QRM and 10m and up, is devoid of life?

From 12m down to top band, the noise level locally (20db over 9 most days) makes it un-useable and I think many people are suffering the same way. I use a websdr (http://kiwisdr.com/public/) as my receiver at times, but when my broadband runs slow or my laptop freezes, I am knackered there as well, not to mention the few seconds delay you get on received signals.

Realistically speaking, nothing is going to be done about this interference to my and many others, legitimate licensed activity.

It seems to me that dealers are getting revenue with or without amateur radio, and 'enthusiasts' are looking for other ways to get their radio fix and don't forget money talks, so may be this is one of the many reasons OFCOM are not interested in enforcement, they don't want to destroy the revenue stream and upset big business, or maybe they think it is better than them using the Echo Charlie aeronautical band?



As far as looking down on M3, M6 and M7 license holder goes, unfortunately it is human nature and it gets the better of SOME people.

SOME motorists look down on cyclists.

SOME home owners look down on Council tenants.

SOME white people look down on black people.

SOME Christians look down on Muslims.

Etc, etc.

A Psychologists stated that, "The next time someone seems to cast a judgemental eye on you, remember that their judgement may be more about them than about you. Maybe they’re facing stressors in their lives that you’re unaware of, and just trying their best to cope"



I have always wanted to learn CW but every time I have tried I lose interest and lack motivation or life just gets the better of me.

What is the best method to use I wonder? I will have to look into it again I think.

The websdr i like to use (http://kiwisdr.com/public/) does have a CW decoder built in, so that has increased by interest a bit lately, so maybe I will make a bit of an effort in the near future.
................................................................................................2W0NBF.........................................................
MorseMan
Super Member
Super Member
Posts: 113
Joined: 27 Sep 2020, 16:55
Call Sign: 26TM2806

Re: OFCONNED

Post by MorseMan »

Mikel wrote: 31 Oct 2020, 11:14 Judging by the local stations around here and by local I mean a 30 mile radius, many non licensed users on PMR446 and 11m are using widebanded HF rigs and BIG amplifiers. Some of these were bought brand new from dealers.

2m, 10m and 70cm are pretty dead from my location but 446 and 11m are teeming with life. If I call CQ on 2m, 10m or 70cm, rarely does anyone come back to me, but when I hear someone call out on 11m CB or PMR446, they get a reply pretty much straight away!

Pirate activity is greater than I have ever known it since the early 80's, at least around here through the summer it was, and that is most definitely keeping the dealers tills ringing big time, and I'm not talking about £20 walkie talkies, or a second hand Harrier CBX with a Zetagi B47 here.

But what is the point of getting licensed, if HF is pretty much wiped out by QRM and 10m and up, is devoid of life?

From 12m down to top band, the noise level locally (20db over 9 most days) makes it un-useable and I think many people are suffering the same way. I use a websdr (http://kiwisdr.com/public/) as my receiver at times, but when my broadband runs slow or my laptop freezes, I am knackered there as well, not to mention the few seconds delay you get on received signals.

Realistically speaking, nothing is going to be done about this interference to my and many others, legitimate licensed activity.

It seems to me that dealers are getting revenue with or without amateur radio, and 'enthusiasts' are looking for other ways to get their radio fix and don't forget money talks, so may be this is one of the many reasons OFCOM are not interested in enforcement, they don't want to destroy the revenue stream and upset big business, or maybe they think it is better than them using the Echo Charlie aeronautical band?



As far as looking down on M3, M6 and M7 license holder goes, unfortunately it is human nature and it gets the better of SOME people.

SOME motorists look down on cyclists.

SOME home owners look down on Council tenants.

SOME white people look down on black people.

SOME Christians look down on Muslims.

Etc, etc.

A Psychologists stated that, "The next time someone seems to cast a judgemental eye on you, remember that their judgement may be more about them than about you. Maybe they’re facing stressors in their lives that you’re unaware of, and just trying their best to cope"



I have always wanted to learn CW but every time I have tried I lose interest and lack motivation or life just gets the better of me.

What is the best method to use I wonder? I will have to look into it again I think.

The websdr i like to use (http://kiwisdr.com/public/) does have a CW decoder built in, so that has increased by interest a bit lately, so maybe I will make a bit of an effort in the near future.
Hiya Mikel

As you say some people always look down on others but fail to realize their are many levels above them.

I used to look after a university professors car & pop in for a cup of tea or sometimes a nice single malt occasionally, This guy was incredibly intelligent & socially way above me but never looked down on me.
Once I went around to his very nice house & under his car was a pool of oil...He had tried to top it up through the dip stick hole, He also never changed his radio station because he was afraid he wouldn't find it again.

Very intelligent in a narrow field of knowledge & accepted he couldn't do what others could, A tap washer to him was splitting the atom.

Best free software to learn CW is possibly G4FON Koch.

Set character speed as a minimum 15/18 wpm....CW is audio learning not counting dots.
I learned up to 12wpm test speed in about 70 hours.
Learn code first with flash cards, Don't write A as dot dash.... put DI DAH that's the sound.
You can use the learn a couple of letters at a time route.
When you can receive then start to send.

Once you have the alphabet then you have procedure, punctuation etc to learn.

Another good app is called CW TRAINER available on play store.... Red ovalised logo yellow CW.

It's not an easy path learning but I now copy 30 ish wpm in my head but that has taken years of practice.

Noise level at my QTH S7+ at times.

Have a go at the code mate & then if all goes well in time you can say ...... I DID DIT ! :clap:
MorseMan
Super Member
Super Member
Posts: 113
Joined: 27 Sep 2020, 16:55
Call Sign: 26TM2806

Re: OFCONNED

Post by MorseMan »

My YETI number plate says it all.
MTR radio & about 3w out to a vertical will work the world.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Post Reply