UK DMR...whats going on??

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daz3210
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Re: UK DMR...whats going on??

Postby daz3210 » 06 Apr 2016, 21:07

Admiral wrote:Good points well made, I'm sure the RSGB Ltd represent a lot of hams very well, but they don't represent me, and I don't care much for their corrupt organisation.


The thing is they do give us as hams a good representation both the Governmental lobbying and International stages.

And let us face facts, what alternatives are they?

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Re: UK DMR...whats going on??

Postby G6HVY » 07 Apr 2016, 18:03

Blimey - I've been off DMR since Christmas during a house move, and it's all kicked off.. not sure what's going on at the momemt, except that it seems a bit messy.

One thing seems clear - some people don't get how DMR works, and given the notoriously prickly way some ham egos work the process of getting everyone on board can sometimes go wrong. But it's a global shared system with complex and easily abused resources (not unlike a lot of amateur radio HF and satellite stuff), so a bit of misunderstanding or bad blood can catch fire really easily.

Plus, nobody's in charge, and quite a few people like it that way. Which means that things can really get rancid and if that happens and we can't organise ourselves to play nicely, Ofcom will start pulling NoVs. So doing nothing, or hoping it'll all sort itself out, is not a no-risk policy.

It'd be nice if the RSGB, or even some sympathetic and talented individuals, put together a bit of clear, friendly, positive informative material that just explains how DMR works and how to use it to best effect. Even a well-produced Youtube animation that demonstrated the difference between DMR and analogue, how the talkgroups work and what happens if you use them badly, would be really useful. That'd be easy to take on board without feeling you're being lectured or told off, especially when you're looking at DMR for the first time, and could be independent of any particular group. At the moment, what's online is fragmented, often contradictory and out of date (and a lot of it isn't very effective), so there's plenty of opportunity for sticks to be grasped at the wrong end.

Perhaps I'll have a go at scripting one and see if I can get an animator pal to give me a hand. Can't hurt.

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Re: UK DMR...whats going on??

Postby sec1223 » 08 Apr 2016, 09:38

G6HVY wrote:It'd be nice if the RSGB, or even some sympathetic and talented individuals, put together a bit of clear, friendly, positive informative material that just explains how DMR works and how to use it to best effect. Even a well-produced Youtube animation that demonstrated the difference between DMR and analogue, how the talkgroups work and what happens if you use them badly, would be really useful. That'd be easy to take on board without feeling you're being lectured or told off, especially when you're looking at DMR for the first time, and could be independent of any particular group. At the moment, what's online is fragmented, often contradictory and out of date (and a lot of it isn't very effective), so there's plenty of opportunity for sticks to be grasped at the wrong end.

Perhaps I'll have a go at scripting one and see if I can get an animator pal to give me a hand. Can't hurt.


this IMHO is whats missing. iv said it loads of times but no ones done one yet AFAIK.
cant stand IGNORANT b******ds

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Re: UK DMR...whats going on??

Postby Admiral » 08 Apr 2016, 09:43

Personally I disagree, in my opinion if a qualified ham is incapable a writing a DMR codeplug then they should consider another hobby.

I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I can write my own codeplugs with relative ease.

All of the information is out there, it's just that some prefer to be spoon-fed and use other peoples codeplugs, probably more laziness than lack of knowledge.

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Re: UK DMR...whats going on??

Postby sec1223 » 08 Apr 2016, 10:12

Admiral wrote:Personally I disagree, in my opinion if a qualified ham is incapable a writing a DMR codeplug then they should consider another hobby.

I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I can write my own codeplugs with relative ease.

All of the information is out there, it's just that some prefer to be spoon-fed and use other peoples codeplugs, probably more laziness than lack of knowledge.


so a brand new to dmr (or a dmr radio) person should hold full knowledge of something he's never seen or used before?.
cant stand IGNORANT b******ds

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Re: UK DMR...whats going on??

Postby Admiral » 08 Apr 2016, 10:23

sec1223 wrote:
Admiral wrote:Personally I disagree, in my opinion if a qualified ham is incapable a writing a DMR codeplug then they should consider another hobby.

I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I can write my own codeplugs with relative ease.

All of the information is out there, it's just that some prefer to be spoon-fed and use other peoples codeplugs, probably more laziness than lack of knowledge.


so a brand new to dmr (or a dmr radio) person should hold full knowledge of something he's never seen or used before?.


What a ridiculous statement/question.

No, of course not, but they should do a bit of research before hand. No point buying a CW key if you haven't taught yourself morse.

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Re: UK DMR...whats going on??

Postby sec1223 » 08 Apr 2016, 10:29

and how do most get to know morse?.. either by being told "how to do it", or they read/use a tutorial.

christ, everyone's had a tv since the 40's but they still come with a manual !
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Re: UK DMR...whats going on??

Postby Buick Mackane » 08 Apr 2016, 10:32

Admiral wrote: in my opinion if a qualified ham is incapable a writing a DMR codeplug then they should consider another hobby.

.


Behave yourself me auld mucker. I'm a qualified ham and iv'e no idea what a codeplug is, Or what DMR is for that matter, Digital aint my forte. Just because someone isn't interested in one aspect of the hobby doesn't mean they should get the boot

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Re: UK DMR...whats going on??

Postby sec1223 » 08 Apr 2016, 10:36

PLL02A wrote:
Admiral wrote: in my opinion if a qualified ham is incapable a writing a DMR codeplug then they should consider another hobby.

.


Behave yourself me auld mucker. I'm a qualified ham and iv'e no idea what a codeplug is, Or what DMR is for that matter, Digital aint my forte. Just because someone isn't interested in one aspect of the hobby doesn't mean they should get the boot


well said !
cant stand IGNORANT b******ds

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Re: UK DMR...whats going on??

Postby Admiral » 08 Apr 2016, 10:44

You're missing the point, the key element is having a desire to use DMR, I have no desire to use morse so will not be looking up dits and dahs, but, if you have a desire to use DMR then it is your duty to learn about it before you mess around with it.

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Re: UK DMR...whats going on??

Postby sec1223 » 08 Apr 2016, 10:52

Admiral wrote:You're missing the point, the key element is having a desire to use DMR, I have no desire to use morse so will not be looking up dits and dahs, but, if you have a desire to use DMR then it is your duty to learn about it before you mess around with it.


i agree one million percent, but 98% of the people that want to use it simply dont know how, so whats wrong with a set of instructions or guides to "help" those that dont know how its done?
cant stand IGNORANT b******ds

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Re: UK DMR...whats going on??

Postby GeeFull » 08 Apr 2016, 10:55

sec1223 wrote:and how do most get to know morse?.. either by being told "how to do it", or they read/use a tutorial.

christ, everyone's had a tv since the 40's but they still come with a manual !

Sort of but not quite on the TV analogy!
My first TV had "ONE" channel, namely The BBC.
There was no dial to tune in another station, just a "fine tune" to compensate for "drift"!
It was a while before people had to get the hang of "tuning around" to find the "new commercial station"!
Then they chucked 405/625 line multi-standard sets into the mix, followed by the VHF lower res side going bump, remote controls appeared of course, although most of the early ones were hard wired, teletext, colour, etc. etc.
To where we are today, with digital multi channel often internet linked into the bargain, mind blowing options.
Someone dragged from the "one channel", draw the curtains to clearly see the picture BBC single channel era, and dumped in front of a modern "Wi Fi" linked TV marvel, with even voice commands on some posh sets, would not have a clue! :D
CW on the other hand, has been a matter of simply mastering the knack of reading and sending the dots and dashes from day one! ;)

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Re: UK DMR...whats going on??

Postby Admiral » 08 Apr 2016, 11:05

There is no issue with someone producing 'DMR for dummies', but people who jump in with both feet before they have a reasonable grasp of what is going on are going to cause ripples in the already troubled DMR waters. And that includes you Sir who proclaims to have had a 40 minute QSO on 235 and left reasonable pauses, that shows either a lack of DMR knowledge or a complete disregard.

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Re: UK DMR...whats going on??

Postby GeeFull » 08 Apr 2016, 11:23

Admiral wrote:There is no issue with someone producing 'DMR for dummies', but people who jump in with both feet before they have a reasonable grasp of what is going on are going to cause ripples in the already troubled DMR waters. And that includes you Sir who proclaims to have had a 40 minute QSO on 235 and left reasonable pauses, that shows either a lack of DMR knowledge or a complete disregard.

I agree on the last part, as in follows.....
So you leave pauses, fine if people want to "call into your conversation", not so fine if they are interested in chatting for 40 minutes themselves, BUT to "their" chosen contact!
They call in a gap, you give way, they make their call, get THEIR contact, and what if they then proceed to do the same as the original 40 minute chatter, as in talk away leaving "suitable gaps of course", and two separate conversations ensue......leading to possibly yet another "on air fall out"?
Gaps are fine on simplex, where they are left for folks who might like "to join in with whoever is currently there", BUT on common calling frequencies, international talk groups, whatever and wherever in the spectrum/mode they are situated, they just don't work unless the first long winded "talkers" are willing to move away, or the second group after making contact for that matter, or by sheer coincidence, you all happen to want to be part of a large common interest "NET"!

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Re: UK DMR...whats going on??

Postby daz3210 » 08 Apr 2016, 12:00

sec1223 wrote:
Admiral wrote:You're missing the point, the key element is having a desire to use DMR, I have no desire to use morse so will not be looking up dits and dahs, but, if you have a desire to use DMR then it is your duty to learn about it before you mess around with it.


i agree one million percent, but 98% of the people that want to use it simply dont know how, so whats wrong with a set of instructions or guides to "help" those that dont know how its done?


If you don't have such a 'publication', how on earth do folk learn so as to not be 'dummies' when it comes to DMR?

For people to have the knowledge before jumping in there has to be literature out there for them to learn, and indeed it has to be literature that tells them the truth, not someones own opinion.


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