UK DMR...whats going on??

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MrWeetabix
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Re: UK DMR...whats going on??

Post by MrWeetabix »

I appreciate that it would work in a different manner with the DMR setup, but in-principle, the 'dialling up' of a remote node/repeater would surely be the preferable option?

It works very well on the analogue side, so why try to re-invent the wheel?

Anyway, I am an outsider looking in, I am sure those with a keen interest, or indeed those who looked to steer the tech in it's development had good intentions for the new system.
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daz3210
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Re: UK DMR...whats going on??

Post by daz3210 »

MrWeetabix wrote:I appreciate that it would work in a different manner with the DMR setup, but in-principle, the 'dialling up' of a remote node/repeater would surely be the preferable option?

It works very well on the analogue side, so why try to re-invent the wheel?

Anyway, I am an outsider looking in, I am sure those with a keen interest, or indeed those who looked to steer the tech in it's development had good intentions for the new system.
I fully agree.

The only difference (and is it an advantage??) is that you can have the option of opening every repeater if you wish.
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Re: UK DMR...whats going on??

Post by sierra_za »

DMR seems to be a mode where people jump in without any prior knowledge or doing any homework thus it becomes messy. One wouldn't jump on to the HF wagon without having some idea of the bands and antenna's equipment needed however many just see that buying a DMR radio that's programmed will get them into the international arena without issues. It's all too easy to continuously get code plugs that are done by more professional users and not take the time to understand what a code plug is and does. Same applies to time slots and talk groups - it's not just a matter of turning a dial to a certain position and talking. Could it be that the mode took off rather quickly or too quickly for some to get a grip on what it's about? What is possibly required is for someone to write a brief guide on DMR and the networks (not having to go too far into each network).

As for the RSGB and Ofcom, having looked at a NoV for a Phoenix linked repeater (shared by a keeper so that I could see what it contained out of general interest), there is no mention of internet and networks - it's a generic NoV thus allowing the Keeper to have any talk groups turned on or off - the only standard is that they provide users with access to the repeaters which can be done via the local (TG9) slot. Radio ID's can be barred if it is really deemed necessary but this only bans the users from the networked talk groups other than local as the TG9 Local traffic is not dependent on the network. I think having a DMR Coordinator either with the RSGB or Ofcom is a bit trickier especially with politics between people involved with both major networks in the UK and having ties or working for either the RSGB or Ofcom which could be a conflict of interest.

As for code plugs, all it takes is practice and one does not need to update their code plug that often (I see a lot of people keep asking for the "latest" code plug). Easiest thing is just to add the repeaters you can access and maybe a few more for areas you frequent. The Motorola CPS is more "user friendly" where it allows for a lot of copying and pasting of information so you can setup one repeater, copy the entries to another repeater zone and just have to update the frequencies, colour code and repeater prefix on the entry names. If you do want to add more repeaters (and not the memory limit of around 1000 entries) then just add TG9 on TS1 & TS2 then to go on TG1, bring up TG9 TS1 and then go to TG1 in the contacts - this is becoming a more popular option. No radio I know of can br fully programmed for all UK GB7 and GB3 repeaters as well as simplex - there is not enough space (and time). One doesn't need the latest contacts as it's rather difficult unless you operate on one network. Phoenix has a "last heard" list that can be exported. I've not found one for BM however I find the easiest is just to manually add mates and local keepers as a standard. Make a list of others to add to the code plug on your computer which can then be uploaded as and when you feel the need to.
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Re: UK DMR...whats going on??

Post by GeeFull »

People don't jump into HF without knowing about bands and antennas that are suitable?.......really! :D
As for "code plugs", I am more concerned with the quality of plugs on the end of my antenna feeders!
DMR?.......too much faff, with little in the way of rewards, and FAR too much "its my ball politics", to even remotely tempt me yet! ;)
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Re: UK DMR...whats going on??

Post by sierra_za »

GeeFull wrote:People don't jump into HF without knowing about bands and antennas that are suitable?.......really! :D
A fair bit is covered in the licence course so all should have a little knowledge but there is nothing about DMR - maybe a change is required? Plus nowadays with the price of rigs, who would spend a load before knowing a little about what they are stepping into? Thus many on DMR start with cheap handhelds then progress. The network politics has dies down with Phoenix and there has recently been a load with BM but it's now user politics - lack of operating procedures covers it all. Even a lot of hype about the DV4 Mini / DV Mega connection to BM but watching the monitors there is very little usage coming in via the reflectors and not a great load via talk groups.
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Re: UK DMR...whats going on??

Post by GeeFull »

sierra_za wrote:
GeeFull wrote:People don't jump into HF without knowing about bands and antennas that are suitable?.......really! :D
A fair bit is covered in the licence course so all should have a little knowledge but there is nothing about DMR - maybe a change is required? Plus nowadays with the price of rigs, who would spend a load before knowing a little about what they are stepping into? Thus many on DMR start with cheap handhelds then progress. The network politics has dies down with Phoenix and there has recently been a load with BM but it's now user politics - lack of operating procedures covers it all. Even a lot of hype about the DV4 Mini / DV Mega connection to BM but watching the monitors there is very little usage coming in via the reflectors and not a great load via talk groups.
Many buy "all the gear", and still have "no idea", you only have to look at some of the very basic questions posed on various threads, on numerous forums, when it comes to jumping in "both feet first", often it seems the cheque book, precedes the research!
DMR I am sure will find its grounded place in the whole amateur radio multi mode spectrum, as have many other offshoot sideline "mode" aspects of amateur wireless transmissions, but predictions of "its the future, analogue will fade away !", as espoused when it hit the scene, I think have a long way to go before coming to fruition! ;)
It is rather restricted in its "benefits" as it stands!
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Re: UK DMR...whats going on??

Post by daz3210 »

sierra_za wrote: A fair bit is covered in the licence course so all should have a little knowledge but there is nothing about DMR - maybe a change is required?
That is fine as far as it goes. But I for one already have my licence. It matters not what is put in the syllabus from now on (except maybe if I am teaching), I will never get the benefit from that addition........

Self teaching is therefore the answer
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Re: UK DMR...whats going on??

Post by GeeFull »

daz3210 wrote:
sierra_za wrote: A fair bit is covered in the licence course so all should have a little knowledge but there is nothing about DMR - maybe a change is required?
That is fine as far as it goes. But I for one already have my licence. It matters not what is put in the syllabus from now on (except maybe if I am teaching), I will never get the benefit from that addition........

Self teaching is therefore the answer
Self teaching is a wonderful thing, but often requires access to in depth published information, to spell out exactly the "do's and don'ts" in unmistakable clarity.
Has anyone ever published on-line the "Big Dummies Guide" to all things DMR, preferably someone who really knows their onions?
I have no idea, not dabbling with it myself.
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Re: UK DMR...whats going on??

Post by sec1223 »

GeeFull wrote:
daz3210 wrote:
sierra_za wrote: A fair bit is covered in the licence course so all should have a little knowledge but there is nothing about DMR - maybe a change is required?
That is fine as far as it goes. But I for one already have my licence. It matters not what is put in the syllabus from now on (except maybe if I am teaching), I will never get the benefit from that addition........

Self teaching is therefore the answer
Self teaching is a wonderful thing, but often requires access to in depth published information, to spell out exactly the "do's and don'ts" in unmistakable clarity.
Has anyone ever published on-line the "Big Dummies Guide" to all things DMR, preferably someone who really knows their onions?
I have no idea, not dabbling with it myself.
NO.. no ones published anything thats set in stone legally or otherwise..

everything at the moment is nothing but a gentleman's agreement.

and as for "all the gear, no idea", thats probably true as EVERYONE is still on a learning curve and that includes repeater keepers.
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Re: UK DMR...whats going on??

Post by daz3210 »

sec1223 wrote: NO.. no ones published anything thats set in stone legally or otherwise..

everything at the moment is nothing but a gentleman's agreement.

and as for "all the gear, no idea", thats probably true as EVERYONE is still on a learning curve and that includes repeater keepers.
What do you mean by set in stone though?

With 'normal' radio we have band plans which are not set in stone, but are a 'gentlemans agreement' as you put it. That works well does it not?

I posted a picture a while back where it was requested that users use the least resources necessary. That in effect means use TG235 to make your contact then move to a talk group that uses only the minimum number of repeaters needed (e.g. a user activated TG). What would be needed to set that out in the same way as the band plans? Would users only respect it if it was RSGB published?
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Re: UK DMR...whats going on??

Post by sec1223 »

im sure the "normal" bands are RSGB "certified" so to say, but i could be wrong.

and yes it works very well but im pretty sure it had teething problems at first.. pretty much the same as dmr is having now.
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Re: UK DMR...whats going on??

Post by Admiral »

RSGB Ltd have nothing to do with it, they are a magazine publisher. Oh yeah, some on the RSGB Ltd payroll also think they rule DMR.
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Re: UK DMR...whats going on??

Post by paulears »

Love or hate them, they do represent more amateur than any other society. I suspect that in years gone by when Governments didn't have to respond to freedom of information requests and have on-line petitions, the RSGB were indeed able to represent the amateur's interests. Nowadays, this kind of thing might just be out of fashion. Indeed, there's evidence now to suggest more people belong to trade unions than in the 70s, because of what they offer - which seems the opposite of the RSGB, where as the hobby has changed, they haven't moved with it, apart from in some areas. Still - I think they're at least representing us all where it matters.
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Re: UK DMR...whats going on??

Post by sec1223 »

Admiral wrote:RSGB Ltd have nothing to do with it, they are a magazine publisher. Oh yeah, some on the RSGB Ltd payroll also think they rule DMR.
rsgb, ofcom.. whoever
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Re: UK DMR...whats going on??

Post by Admiral »

Good points well made, I'm sure the RSGB Ltd represent a lot of hams very well, but they don't represent me, and I don't care much for their corrupt organisation.
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