UK DMR...whats going on??

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LeakyFeeder
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UK DMR...whats going on??

Postby LeakyFeeder » 29 Feb 2016, 23:07

Havnt used DMR for a bit but the last few days its been dead... Whats going on with all this bitterness n downright nastiness on there.. Diff splinter groups fighting it out n god knows what crap being spouted on FaceFarce....
Could somebody in 'the know' explain it in simple G7 speak?

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Re: UK DMR...whats going on??

Postby Admiral » 01 Mar 2016, 07:51

Well, I'm not 'in the know', just a humble user.

There seems to be a North/South divide between Phoenix and Brandmeister at the moment, so we're currently having a VHS v Betamax battle on DMR.

My local repeater GB7PE is still on Phoenix, it still works, TG1 is getting on my nerves at the moment, I could remove it, but I still won't be able to use slot1 when a SA station finds an old buddy in the UK and they're on TG1 for half an hour.

It is what it is, I think it peaked a bit early, hopefully things will calm down in a while and people will see sense and realise that they can't run roughshot over keepers and users.

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Re: UK DMR...whats going on??

Postby paulears » 01 Mar 2016, 09:11

As somebody a bit frustrated because they cannot hear what is going on - could somebody explain. Reading the comments everywhere, it seems DMR is now two separate camps, but each individually funded node into the world-wide system is now polarised one way or the other. I got a link the other day to a phoenix web site - I had heard of the bandmeister thing - but had little knowledge of what is was.

So is the problem like a local UHF repeater, where 'club members' use it like the phone, and don't let in strangers, or deliberately ignore them - or like said above, have a long winded chat that extends internationally, boring the whole world to death?

I assume, because nobody ever actually says, that somebody in the UK calls on an international talk group, and then moves to a different talk group once comms is active, and this uses one of the repeater slots locally, both ends. People elsewhere can listen in, in another continent, if they too select that same talk group. The other local slot can be used by somebody else - but only on certain talk groups? Local ones maybe?

So the entire system falls down when people misbehave, because somebody in New York can get into an argument with somebody in Newark? Somebody in Norfolk in the states, then gets grumpy that upsets somebody in Norfolk in the UK and it takes off?

The other question is how many simultaneous paths can there be - the number of talk groups is not huge, for the whole world? Does it get congested? Do the phoenix and bandmeister networks operate separately, or are they sharing the same end radio channels?

These things are obvious to people who have access to the network, but nobody seems to ever give this level information out, because it's probably obvious - but only to people who have a radio that can connect.

If anyone can confirm or ridicule my guesswork, it would be very handy. It's a bit like people describing the French language, without being able to hear it, or using any of the words.

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Re: UK DMR...whats going on??

Postby Admiral » 01 Mar 2016, 10:01

It doesn't matter if the repeater supports 2 TGs or a 1000 TGs, there are only 2 TDMA timeslots, or two channels. So if someone is yacking on TG1, then I'm not going to hear anything on TG235 etc.

It's like an analogue community repeater with multiple users on CTCSS, if Freds Skip Hire is yacking on CTCSS 88.5, then Bobs Dog Groomers can't use the repeater on CTCSS 107.2 until Fred and co have shut up. Someone on a scanner can hear Fred and Bob, but only one can use the repeater at a time, same as DMR, yes, you have two channels or two timeslots, but the TGs are the same as the analogue CTCSS, so only one TG can use one timeslot at a time, the other TGs have to wait.

Maybe that's a bit too simplistic and someone may wish to correct me.

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Re: UK DMR...whats going on??

Postby LeakyFeeder » 01 Mar 2016, 11:39

Its jus seems somebody on the DMR network is determined to cause maximum aggro...god knows why as it was a good system..
One thing i have noticed is the lack of folk using it...apart from on my local box GB7TD where there is plenty of snide comments n digs at other repeaters and their keepers.

If im honest im ready for sticking the 706 bk in the car n ditching DMR for a bit...its all gone a bit sour :(

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Re: UK DMR...whats going on??

Postby Admiral » 01 Mar 2016, 11:49

I have to confess that I revel in a bit of mild jeopardy, so I tend to poke the hornets nest at times, if the DMR MARC system closed tomorrow then it wouldn't ruin my day, I just have a couple of cheapie handies, one is an RX box for shopwatch etc and has a couple of local commercial repeaters in for borrowing in the evening :o , the other has my very official DMR MARC RID in and is only used whilst saluting.

If anyone is used to hearing DMR via a ten quid dongle and DSD+ and thinks everyone sounds like a dalek then they need to get a 'proper' radio, the audio quality is a million times better, trust me, I'm a Doctor.

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Re: UK DMR...whats going on??

Postby sierra_za » 01 Mar 2016, 22:13

It seems that the guys up north got p!$$ed off with the rules on Phoenix then moved 10 northern repeaters over to Brand Meister on a weekend. Problem is now, there are users with absolutely no idea of how to use BM and their admins are not helping.

Some Phoenix guys have gathered info from various BM sources onto a newly created FB Group by a SE DMR user and shown the locals that BM is going to be a harder system to use as the UK has very little say over how their talk groups are structured. And then there are those making rules as they have realised that qso's on TG235 are blocking slot 1 which also have TG9 Local, TG1 World Wide, TG2 Europe and TG3 USA. In theory anyone can use any talk group on any repeater connected to the BM network so two people outside the UK could have a qso on TG235 and knock out a slot in the UK.

Also since the BM system is a mix of DMR & D-Start, we have G1XCC who got DMR into the UK involved with G4TSN (RSGB Midlands Regional Manager) and then the D-Start guru in the UK, G7LWT (Ofcom) as well as M0AUT who's BM repeater recently moved to make way for a Phoenix repeater (which was going to be GB7FB until M0AUT registered www.gb7fb.co.uk for himself redirected to his repeater site www.gb7fc.co.uk so it changed to GB7FO).

Seems that the northerners (G1CXX & G4TSN) thought that doing the repeater move in one weekend after weeks of planning, makes them look good. However they forgot the users in their planning so the past few days they have been bombarded with questions and have declined to provide answers until the keepers have met which could be in a few weeks time. Why the hell move 10 repeaters and have no info for the users (except to boost their egos)?

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Re: UK DMR...whats going on??

Postby sec1223 » 01 Mar 2016, 22:17

thank christ my radio is capable of listening to other stuff on uhf.
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Re: UK DMR...whats going on??

Postby MrWeetabix » 02 Mar 2016, 11:08

And people wonder why the hobby is in decline.

This highlights my own issues with DMR

Closed systems, controlled by egotistical morons for their own self gratification, not for the community they should be serving.

If your face doesn't fit, you're not getting in and God forbid you should step out of line! BYE BYE!

Willy-waving at it's finest.
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Re: UK DMR...whats going on??

Postby LeakyFeeder » 02 Mar 2016, 15:00

The more i read the more lunacy i see... No wonder i cant hear anybody if the system is so fragmented..

Well the DP3600 is going as is the DM4600... Will keep the MD380 for occasional DMR use....but thats just about it as far as im concerned....

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Re: UK DMR...whats going on??

Postby sec1223 » 02 Mar 2016, 15:24

this got released today if its any good..
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Re: UK DMR...whats going on??

Postby BK » 02 Mar 2016, 18:10

Aww, I'm confused again now. That says Scotland is TG23550, but the webpage for the Scottish repeaters says its TG850 ???

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Re: UK DMR...whats going on??

Postby sec1223 » 02 Mar 2016, 18:21

BK wrote:Aww, I'm confused again now. That says Scotland is TG23550, but the webpage for the Scottish repeaters says its TG850 ???



well thats the one thats all over the boards, but to be honest, they constantly fanny about with it anyway so it will change next week.
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Re: UK DMR...whats going on??

Postby Admiral » 02 Mar 2016, 18:29

Do they mean TG23550 or TG50??? Jesus Christ.

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Re: UK DMR...whats going on??

Postby sierra_za » 02 Mar 2016, 20:11

So to prevent "confusion" as they say, the BM Admins in the UK took the same TG setup that Phoenix had been using to help prevent the immediate change of code plugs since the users were given no warning of them moving 10 repeaters from Phoenix to BM.

Several TG's that are more well known remain and are linked to what will be the new TG when they decide to change over - I read somewhere that this deadline could be in December but "following several weeks of planning" they moved the repeaters and thought very little on the talk groups and impact to the users.

TG80 = TG23580 (UK Wide UA 1) , TG81 = TG23581 (UK Wide UA 2) , TG820 = TG23520 (NW England) , TG850 = TG23550 (Scotland) , TG860 = TG23560 (NE England) & TG862 = TG23562 (M62 Corridor). The new TG235xx talk groups are available for use immediately for those that want to change their code plugs. Note that there is no TG13 English World Wide and the 4 UA talk groups TG's 113, 123, 119 & 129.

Personally, as they have now added in the regional talk groups to slot 2, this could impact on people's ability to use the D-Star side which to some extent is the "selling" point of this network. But then of course they can't add them to slot 1 as there is already a lot on that slot. But then based on the "all talk groups are available on all repeaters via both slots" does it really matter as the only stable bit is the D-Star link being on slot 2.


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