Mega16 AVR controlled PLL02A SSB project

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lbcomms
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Re: Mega16 AVR controlled PLL02A SSB project

Post by lbcomms » 04 Apr 2017, 20:28

Did you get your day off and get around to making one, or are you still waiting for the parts and the programmer?

Once you've got yours made, it's "I've shown you mine, you show me yours", then we'll start in the programming.

With the soldering, it doesn't have to be that good, it's only DC. A lot of the gear we work with is digital microwave radio, 4 gigs up to about 18. No room for less than perfect soldering there, a lumpy joint becomes an extra inductor or capacitor :problem: . After working with those for the last 15 years your soldering looks pretty good...

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Re: Mega16 AVR controlled PLL02A SSB project

Post by Wombatsone » 12 Feb 2018, 07:07

Hi @lbcomms, just wondering if these are suitable for this project? Or will I have to live with my embarrassing soldering skills.
Image

Cheers

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Re: Mega16 AVR controlled PLL02A SSB project

Post by lbcomms » 12 Feb 2018, 19:35

It'll be OK for development and testing, but too big and fragile (the wire connections) for a final fix inside a radio, especially a mobile. Lots of connections to come loose, fall off, or become noisy.

Some of those dev boards also use a regulator with 12V max input, feed them with 13.8V+ from a car alternator or a base power supply and an expensive chain reaction (i.e. radios PLL chip) awaits...

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Re: Mega16 AVR controlled PLL02A SSB project

Post by Wombatsone » 13 Feb 2018, 07:28

Awesome it will at least let me start playing, I am so far behind with this digital stuff, just playing catch up. :)

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Re: Mega16 AVR controlled PLL02A SSB project

Post by Poteroa » 16 Oct 2018, 16:56

Hi.

This is really interesting project!
I have an old major m120 and could be a good candidate for conversion.
Also one old 22ch am mocoma 27 is lying in the closet, ssb would make it a killer radio! Both use pll02, oldies goldies 😁

Did you ever get to the programming part lbcomms?

It should be quite easy to make the board, no problem, but with the coding part I am totally lost. Etching own circuit board is no issue, no need to order from China..

All progress stopped, as no updates for long time?

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Re: Mega16 AVR controlled PLL02A SSB project

Post by lbcomms » 16 Oct 2018, 19:32

Never got to finish it off due to changed circumstances at work, I was left with basically zero time to play with it.
Will be back to my old job hopefully at the end of the year, so will be able to help out then...

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Re: Mega16 AVR controlled PLL02A SSB project

Post by Poteroa » 17 Oct 2018, 04:06

lbcomms wrote:
16 Oct 2018, 19:32
Never got to finish it off due to changed circumstances at work, I was left with basically zero time to play with it.
Will be back to my old job hopefully at the end of the year, so will be able to help out then...
You do have some kind of "beta" version I suppose, as the one you already did? I mean to try it out.. :)

Oh, you deliberately chose the th ic-chip for easy build?
The smd one would be easier to mount in to any radio due to the size of it, but needs good skills and equipment to make it naturally..
I think I would go for the SMD type, as I do have equipment to solder it.

I have played with arduinos, but really, this seems to be more complicated coding thats needed to accomplish it.
I need to create the circuit first with circuitlab or similar and then make the pcb, of course will share it here.

Got some projects also lying around that I need to finish, but maybe can get few hours for this in near future.

What do you think lbcomms? ;)

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Re: Mega16 AVR controlled PLL02A SSB project

Post by lbcomms » 17 Oct 2018, 13:39

We made 3 or 4 "beta" versions, all slightly different (i.e. one of them was for the 858 PLL).

The original idea was to make it up as a kit that the locals could buy and put together themselves, SMT was deliberately avoided for that reason.
The code is easily adapted to suit different PLLs.

If you can wait until I get my old job bask, probably around the end of the year, I'll be happy to go through the coding process with you.
In the meantime, build the circuit and put it into an old / spare radio as per the diagram so you'll have something to practice on.

For commercial applications though, SMT will be used. Have a look at the Galaxy drift cure thread for some pics on our last SMT board...

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Re: Mega16 AVR controlled PLL02A SSB project

Post by Poteroa » 17 Oct 2018, 15:59

lbcomms wrote:
17 Oct 2018, 13:39
We made 3 or 4 "beta" versions, all slightly different (i.e. one of them was for the 858 PLL).

The original idea was to make it up as a kit that the locals could buy and put together themselves, SMT was deliberately avoided for that reason.
The code is easily adapted to suit different PLLs.

If you can wait until I get my old job bask, probably around the end of the year, I'll be happy to go through the coding process with you.
In the meantime, build the circuit and put it into an old / spare radio as per the diagram so you'll have something to practice on.

For commercial applications though, SMT will be used. Have a look at the Galaxy drift cure thread for some pics on our last SMT board...
Galaxy drift cure thread was very interesting to read and excellent success!

I will order stuff in near days, I think china is winning this order as supplier..
(wires seem to be bit crappy from there, so those need to be sourced elsewhere).

I thought to build the SMT ;) one first, then maybe the th one, parts are really so cheap. :D

You had in the schema 1n912 but I would go for the plain 1n4148 / LL4148, as they are more easily sourced in SMT.
Or did you have some specific reason for the 912´s, its just a plain 200mV zener?

Oh and the rotary switch, plain 360´deg 20 pos one? I think to go for the push button model, as then can use it for something else later on.

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Re: Mega16 AVR controlled PLL02A SSB project

Post by lbcomms » 17 Oct 2018, 19:26

I used the 914 diodes because that's what I had at the time, they are just used for switching (blocking any higher voltages such as the typical PTT 9 volts from killing the micro). They are NOT zeners. A zener there would pass a higher voltage and break the IC.

1n4148 will work fine. For SMT, we use BAS16 in the SOT23 package. All 3 are electrically identical in this application.

We did use an encoder with a push button in some versions, the push button connected to the HOME input. From memory, when pushed in for 2 seconds it returned the radio to a preset channel - in our case 27.355 (FCC channel 35, the Oz call channel) but easy to recode for your area / frequency.

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Re: Mega16 AVR controlled PLL02A SSB project

Post by Poteroa » 18 Oct 2018, 03:13

lbcomms wrote:
17 Oct 2018, 19:26
I used the 914 diodes because that's what I had at the time, they are just used for switching (blocking any higher voltages such as the typical PTT 9 volts from killing the micro). They are NOT zeners. A zener there would pass a higher voltage and break the IC.

1n4148 will work fine. For SMT, we use BAS16 in the SOT23 package. All 3 are electrically identical in this application.

We did use an encoder with a push button in some versions, the push button connected to the HOME input. From memory, when pushed in for 2 seconds it returned the radio to a preset channel - in our case 27.355 (FCC channel 35, the Oz call channel) but easy to recode for your area / frequency.
Thank you for the clarification lbcomms. ;) Should have been obvious.. Getting old. :D

Good then, off to order some components..

Been reading a lot about the SSB and how it should be actually very easy to accomplish with the PLL chips. Here in Finland we have lots of the old CB´s that use the PLL chip from the 80-90´s, so quite easy to get potential ones to modify. Most of them are the Cybernet ones, 22+11A AM, 40ch mod is easy.

For this project, I think I need to get me self a frequency counter.

Might even get few for gathering dust, maybe get some old friends to find a spark for this hobby too..
I think in the mid 80´s it was the most interesting thing to do, driving around and meeting in parking lots, no GSMs, no proper internet, just landlines and lucky ones had 2400+ baud modems. Time of the Commodores.. :thumbup:

I am in no way good with the radios and frequencies, I repair just plain PSUs, motherboards and fix IT equipment for work.

Bear with me, more stupid questions will come for sure.

I am in dire straits if this goes to tits, and you don't get your old job back, so will keep my fingers crossed. :lol:

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Re: Mega16 AVR controlled PLL02A SSB project

Post by lbcomms » 20 Oct 2018, 14:04

SSB can't be "added" with PLL chips - a bunch of other components is needed to accomplish that. There were plenty of SSB radios around in the 70's, made before PLL technology became common in consumer grade radio equipment. Then again, my understanding of your statement may have been lost in translation, English is not my first language.

For doing work on PLL circuitry, you'll need at least frequency counter and preferably an oscilloscope, both usable to at least 40 MHz.

A "Commodore" here is a common car from the 80's onwards: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden_Commodore_(VL)

Never seen for myself a computer with that brand name, but have heard them mentioned at AVRF. In the mid 80's I was at junior school with almost no interest in electronics / computers / radio.

And I will get my old job back OK, we own the business 8)
I just changed roles from admin to the tech bench to make up a shortfall after one tech left and another one retired. We'd just started a big project upgrading a large users radios from analog FM to APCO P25 digital and are on track to finish it by the end of the year. After that is done I'll be moving back into the office and going back to planning and support. This will give me a lot more time to play (if all goes to plan!).

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Re: Mega16 AVR controlled PLL02A SSB project

Post by Poteroa » 21 Oct 2018, 17:40

Hi lbcomms.

I understood from your topic pll02a ssb, that if this mod is done, we can get ssb for a non ssb radio. Did I understand you wrong?
Anyway this mod is fun to do.

I have no oscilloscope at home, but at work I have one, so with small delay, can use it.

Well, need to wait for the parts now. Order is on the way.

About the coding part, what do you use for coding, avr studio?

Do I understand correctly that how all this is done (basic idea), just setting high an low to the pins to set desired frequency? And by the reading of pin states we drive the display?

Can you explain a little more of your idea and the side bands on pll02?

And English is not my mother tongue either, yours is pretty good. 😉

Oh, the commodores? I was referring to the "computer" platform, never seen a Holden in Finland.. 🙁

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Re: Mega16 AVR controlled PLL02A SSB project

Post by lbcomms » 22 Oct 2018, 12:32

No, it can't add SSB to an AM or FM radio. SSB needs a lot more and in some cases better quality / higher rated components. A radio with SSB capabilities is roughly three times the price of a similar quality AM or FM only radio for that reason.

What the project did was replace the mechanical channel switch (that switches the various on/off states to the radios PLL and channel display) with a digital programmable IC. In this case it has a couple of advantages - the ability to cover many more channels than 40 with a single rotary control, and automatic scanning of the band to look for a busy channel. But the main reason was purely educational, as an introduction to microcontroller ICs.

The PLL02A has 9 programming pins, that gives you 512 combinations. If your channels are 10KHz apart, that's just over 5MHz of theoretical coverage. In reality though, the oscillator and mixer stages will limit you to about 150 channels (1.5 MHz range) at best unless some advanced RF broadbanding techniques are used.

For software, we use mostly Imagecraft / Jumpstart AVR, but that's aimed at experienced developers and best taught in a classroom situation.

For simple applications like the Cybernet project, use either Studio or the Arduino IDE (both free) or BASCOM (paid, but with a limited but usable free version available). If you've not used microcontrollers before I'd start with BASCOM and learn the fundamental principles (in system programming, ports, loops, data types, and variables) first up.

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Re: Mega16 AVR controlled PLL02A SSB project

Post by Poteroa » 22 Oct 2018, 14:31

lbcomms wrote:
22 Oct 2018, 12:32
No, it can't add SSB to an AM or FM radio. SSB needs a lot more and in some cases better quality / higher rated components. A radio with SSB capabilities is roughly three times the price of a similar quality AM or FM only radio for that reason.

What the project did was replace the mechanical channel switch (that switches the various on/off states to the radios PLL and channel display) with a digital programmable IC. In this case it has a couple of advantages - the ability to cover many more channels than 40 with a single rotary control, and automatic scanning of the band to look for a busy channel. But the main reason was purely educational, as an introduction to microcontroller ICs.

The PLL02A has 9 programming pins, that gives you 512 combinations. If your channels are 10KHz apart, that's just over 5MHz of theoretical coverage. In reality though, the oscillator and mixer stages will limit you to about 150 channels (1.5 MHz range) at best unless some advanced RF broadbanding techniques are used.

For software, we use mostly Imagecraft / Jumpstart AVR, but that's aimed at experienced developers and best taught in a classroom situation.

For simple applications like the Cybernet project, use either Studio or the Arduino IDE (both free) or BASCOM (paid, but with a limited but usable free version available). If you've not used microcontrollers before I'd start with BASCOM and learn the fundamental principles (in system programming, ports, loops, data types, and variables) first up.
That is what I thought originally, as "sliding" to sideband seems impossible as it would not lock to the slightly off frequency without tuning if off in the first place, but then the normal channels would be off the same amount... I thought that you had some circuit in mind to add to this project later..

Well thing is for this Mocoma 27 that I have, is to add FM board, and then by this modification move from 22AM to full 40+ channel AM/FM. :)
Nice little project to do and so also learn some basic coding..

I have done some simple stuff with arduino, but bascom is totally new to me.. Need to take a look. :)

So I did understand you right, this project is using the rotary switch and by the pin state give the channel numbers to 7 segment 2 digit display with IC.

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