I need someone to make me a one off pic.

A forum for the discussion of matters of a technical nature. All such activities are undertaken at the readers discretion and own risk. If you don't know what you are doing, don't blame us if it all goes wrong!
Post Reply
lbcomms
Super Member
Super Member
Posts: 239
Joined: 04 Oct 2015, 08:10
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: I need someone to make me a one off pic.

Post by lbcomms » 19 Mar 2017, 02:02

speeddemon wrote:witch new serial ppl chip should i buy
At this stage, none. We've got a project on the go at the moment to replace an unobtainable one we've been using for a while to convert 23 channel crystal era radios to 40+. Looking at both Analog Devices DDS and Silabs PLL types, they will both cover the frequency range but both are too dirty to use directly - the radio would have increased spurs and reduced receiver performance.

Trying a few different ways to clean them up. I want to have the radio at least as clean as it was before the conversion, but preferably a bit better.

It's a long term "spare time" project that will be done hopefully around the middle of the year, but this could be sooner if things quieten down or later if things get really busy again.

The MC145170 is a serial PLL we've used before to replace some non expandable types such as the uPD2824, uPD2816, LC7131, and TC9106.
This works well, but a proper PCB is needed (perfboard won't work due to RF issues), and obviously it can't be used to convert radios without a VCO such as the earlier 23 channel crystal synthesized models.

They can be had for under $2.00 (less than a pound) each on eBay in an SMD SO16 package. Thru hole ones are rarer and 10 times the price. Not really an issue though as you need a double sided board anyway to keep them stable.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2pcs-MC145170 ... xyIAZRs-ne

They are very easy to program, two lines of code to wake the chip up when you first turn the radio on, and one line of code to set the frequency every time you change channel. Frequency / channel range is 0.1 to 120 MHz and 65500 channels, way more than will ever be needed in a ham or CB conversion.
trc459 elbex pd8500d
A TRC459 conversion could be anywhere from a simple hi band and +10Kc mod, right up to a full blown microprocessor replacement to add new features such as instant "555" or internet / PC connectivity. Would be an interesting learning project.

Never heard of an "elbex pd8500d" down here, you'll need to provide more detail on that one.

User avatar
speeddemon
Radio Addict
Radio Addict
Posts: 650
Joined: 30 Jan 2017, 03:58
Call Sign: speeddemon

Re: I need someone to make me a one off pic.

Post by speeddemon » 22 Mar 2017, 01:00

Hi sue :wave: I hope u doing gd over their ty for the link :thumbup: Ill be ordering that mc145170 chip soon :mrgreen: :thumbup: the eblex pd8500d witch I need and cant find a schamaitc/ service manual for that radio witch im still looking for {bnghd} . it is a uk version of the usa version of the robyn sb 540d tms chip mcu / key pad basestation info on it is at cb tricks.com / when you anit busy and get a free chance to google tms 1023nl and find /download pdf file called de cb channel controller. tms 1022nl nll en tms1023nl from web site circuitsonline > forum > file . :geek: :ugeek: :idea: as I cant read it because its written in different language {bnghd} I would like your input on it/ ideas/ review/revision of it someday in the future . :ugeek: As I looked at that pdf today :ugeek: I think maybe your atmega 8/ 16 circuits or a pic micro maybe can be used in place of it.? and can be reprogramed to replace it .? i like your idea a full blown microprocessor conversion replacement for trc 459/trc480 /zodiac diplomat/homer40 and similar eprom / tms chip mcu controlled pll radios etc :ugeek: im looking forward to seeing learning / doing your atmega 16 pll02a circuit mod soon :ugeek: and useing it to control that mc145170 circuit for my browning mark 4 :ugeek: . I know u busy over there i hope to see your atmega 16 pll02a ssb posting soon . take care n cheers n73's :wave: :thumbup:

lbcomms
Super Member
Super Member
Posts: 239
Joined: 04 Oct 2015, 08:10
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: I need someone to make me a one off pic.

Post by lbcomms » 22 Mar 2017, 06:52

That chip is a TMS1000, an early micro used in lots of consumer electronics and appliances from the late 70's to the mid 80's.

Found in lots of first generation control applications for toys, whitegoods, and audio gear like high end cassette decks.
The "23" is the "mask" code, back them the manufacturers didn't program their own chips, they were supplied preprogrammed from TI.
A microwave oven might have the same chip but with maybe a "19" instead of a 23, and a cassette player might have been a "21".

They are somewhat crude by todays standards - 43 instructions, 2 registers, a single stack and no interrupts at all.

A Mega16 would have no trouble replacing a TMS1000, provided you are willing to put a lot of effort into mapping out all of the pin functions and then using that to write new firmware from scratch.
and useing it to control that mc145170 circuit for my browning mark 4
Unless you are comfortable with RF / screening issues and designing double sided circuit boards I wouldn't go with the 145170.
Currently working on a replacement for repairs like that, but able to be built on perfboard. That will be a few months away though.

Dealing with PLL design issues such as spurs and phase noise is extremely frustrating without the right gear, such as a network / spectrum analyser. Stick with simple parallel conversions like the PLL02A and the 858 until you are comfortable with those, and then move on if you want to go further.

The Mega16 conversion is gong well, just waiting to get the radio back from the guys thrashing it on the SSB call channel to do a few more pics...

User avatar
speeddemon
Radio Addict
Radio Addict
Posts: 650
Joined: 30 Jan 2017, 03:58
Call Sign: speeddemon

Re: I need someone to make me a one off pic.

Post by speeddemon » 22 Mar 2017, 23:25

Hi sue :wave: I ordered a few pll chips ie mb8719 pll 02a / mc104106 /mc145170 to have on hand the browning mark 4 is a near future project on the baçkburner for now . ive done your upd 858 atmega8 circuit mod to my trc 457 it came great :mrgreen: :ugeek: a big ty to you for posting it :thumbup: as im learning /studying learning c code and working with avr's/pic micro's :geek: im just here waiting with soldering iron in hand :ugeek: :D on your up coming posting atmega 16 pll 02a ssb circuit conversion mod to do to a few of my pll02a ssb radios that are collecting dust over here for long time now {bnghd} is there any other postings here on this forum you know of? or on the webb some where else ? / got any links {bnghd} ? Is there official google search term name for that type of circuit ? Any other webb sties or pdf/ books or Circuit diagrams for that type of avr/pic micro controller pll circuit That i can look at in da meantime so i can studying up on I just happened to come across that pdf and seeked your encite / expertise on it and your thoughts on it im glad to know your atmega 16 controller circuit would work /replace those pain da seat old tms1000/tms1022/1023 nl series chips and work in the formention radios above in my previous postings .cheers n73's

lbcomms
Super Member
Super Member
Posts: 239
Joined: 04 Oct 2015, 08:10
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: I need someone to make me a one off pic.

Post by lbcomms » 23 Mar 2017, 07:29

is there any other postings here on this forum you know of?
MC145170 in a Uniden uPD2824 radio:
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=49419#p437916

Similar conversion to a PLL02A SSB radio:
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=49419&start=15#p438671

Lots of others on CBT, but their forum is currently down and you need to be a member to even read the forum there.
Is there official google search term name for that type of circuit
Not really, there are lots of ways to "expand a radio". People have been doing it since before I was born :D

The AVR is just an extremely versatile programmable IC. That component that gives you Low and Hi 40's in the Cybernet can also be the identical part that controls the operation of your toaster, TV remote, coffee machine, or an industrial metal cutting machine. The only thing that makes each IC application different is its programming.

Got the Cybernet back tonight, will hopefully finally get that post done in the next day or so.

Edit: Posted the first part of the conversion. It's in the same section as this thread.

User avatar
speeddemon
Radio Addict
Radio Addict
Posts: 650
Joined: 30 Jan 2017, 03:58
Call Sign: speeddemon

Re: I need someone to make me a one off pic.

Post by speeddemon » 25 Mar 2017, 21:04

Hi sue :wave: how r u? I hope you are doing gd over there im looking forward seening your posting the atmega 16 pll 02a ssb coversion mod soon :ugeek: ty those where great posts.! Do you Got a link to where can I download the circuit diagrams/ source code or asm hex files/ pcf8574 pc programing software for both exoanda circuit board mods pll02a/ mc145170? :ugeek: :thumbup: Cheers n 73's

lbcomms
Super Member
Super Member
Posts: 239
Joined: 04 Oct 2015, 08:10
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: I need someone to make me a one off pic.

Post by lbcomms » 25 Mar 2017, 23:49

Never posted the firmware for that as it was a one-off prototype, not a finished project.

Start with the parallel version first if you haven't done micros before. Learn how that works first before you move onto PLL swaps and the RF issues that go with the more extreme mods like that one. You'll need to be able to design / have made double sided plated thru boards and good RF test gear for a successful outcome there. Keeping the original PLL chip in the radio will mean not having to worry about RF issues.

If you haven't got one yet, get a parallel PLL radio (i.e. uPD858, PLL02A, or an MC14410x such as a 3900) to learn on. Then do a conversion like the PLL02A SSB linked to above or in one the new thread as a starter project.

User avatar
speeddemon
Radio Addict
Radio Addict
Posts: 650
Joined: 30 Jan 2017, 03:58
Call Sign: speeddemon

Re: I need someone to make me a one off pic.

Post by speeddemon » 26 Mar 2017, 03:42

Hi sue :wave: ok I didnt know after reading those two great posts that the mc104170/pll02a exspanda circuit boards mods wasn't a finish project :ugeek: {bnghd} I was just asking you where i possibly could download the source code and shematic diagrams for them thought you might hav a link to them .. ive done pll swaps and design/made circuit boards here at my radio workshop over the years and done some pic/ avr/ learning more as I go everyday :ugeek: and done plenty of eprom programing In the late 80's :crazy: :ugeek: and I own 5 pll02a ssb rsdios sitting on my work bench/ shelfs. Take care n Cheers n 73's :wave: :thumbup:

lbcomms
Super Member
Super Member
Posts: 239
Joined: 04 Oct 2015, 08:10
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: I need someone to make me a one off pic.

Post by lbcomms » 26 Mar 2017, 12:53

I'll have a look for you if I've still got it. You'll need Imagecraft AVR to compile it for yourself. It will be "version 0.1" messy with minimal commenting. Don't use it for a paying job though, it could bounce back and bite you hard. Feel free to experiment for yourself though (if I find it!).

The first tute board (the Mega16 in the Cybernet) will be well commented and written for a compiler that can be had in a free "hobbyist" version.

Grab some 3 or 5 pin encoder switches and a couple of "USBASP" in-circuit programmers off eBay (the switches are under a dollar and the programmers are about 5 dollars each), and build up the Mega 16 circuit. Once you've got it working in the Cybernet it'll be pretty straight forward how to code it to do other things (such as 40 channel switch with Lo/Mid/Hi).

Will post the schematic of the serial PLL later. It's only a 16 pin SO device, if you know your way around PLL circuits it's pretty easy to follow the datasheet. Only thing that might not make sense is the serial programming part, but it's only few lines of code which I'll explain later if you can't figure it out. Easier than wiring up a parallel PLL, it's only 3 wires to program. But learn the AVR, USBASP, and coding stuff first...

User avatar
speeddemon
Radio Addict
Radio Addict
Posts: 650
Joined: 30 Jan 2017, 03:58
Call Sign: speeddemon

Re: I need someone to make me a one off pic.

Post by speeddemon » 27 Mar 2017, 21:30

Hi sue :wave: how are you ? I hope you doing gd over there. Ok if you still got them if not. its ok if you cant find the unfinished exspanda circuit board mc140170/pll02a schematic diagram's etc I know you got hands full working hard/busy over there. its no biggie right now . If and when you do plz post them whenever you can find them and got a free chance to plz and ty . i googled found a pdf on that pcf8574 chip to study up on for now :ugeek: I just ordered a few 3/5 pin rotory switch's and a few of those usbasp' s programers off fleabay thats a gd deal at $5 a piece for them avr usbasp programers :mrgreen: a big ty to you. :thumbup: for you to recomending them to me and for your all help and advice . :thumbup: yea I know cbt forum been closed for awhile now {bnghd} any word when it will it ?and registration be open again ? I just saw and read your posting on your atmega 16 ssb pll02a circuit mod on that aus cb radio I learn a lot from it . you did alot of hard work on it getting working again and I.you making a better radio for your customer hope he or she appreciates all your hard work on it. you did a fantastic job on it .! and its a well thought out and you did a great job on documenting it .! .it is a great educational learning posting !! :ugeek: :thumbup: keep up the gd work ! :thumbup: cant wait to see the rest of the up coming atmega 16 ssb pll02a post's take care and 73's :thumbup:

lbcomms
Super Member
Super Member
Posts: 239
Joined: 04 Oct 2015, 08:10
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: I need someone to make me a one off pic.

Post by lbcomms » 28 Mar 2017, 08:15

i googled found a pdf on that pcf8574 chip to study up on for now
Don't worry about the details in the datasheet, which makes it sound a LOT more complex to than it really is.

It's basically 8 extra remote controlled (by a pair of wires) pins and you can have a maximum of 16 chips, all controlled by the same pair of wires. This costs you 2 pins on the Mega16, but gives you up to 128 more input / output pins.

A practical system would be a lot smaller than that though. You could do a parallel PLL radio like an 858 with 4 of them - one for the tens digit, one for the units digit, one for the PLL, and one for the channel switch and band selector.

Done a few that way in the past, especially on base stations. With only 2 common wires to the PLL, channel LEDS, channel selector + Lo/Mid/Hi switch it makes for a super neat wiring job between the AVR board and the various sections of the radio it connects to.
cbt forum been closed for awhile now any word when it will it
It's been down for about a month now. Haven't heard when or if it'll be back, trying to anything there like reading messages or sending a PM gives a "Database Error, Please try again. If you come back to this error screen, report the error to the administrator" message without any details on who the administrator is or how to contact them...

Techquest
Super Member
Super Member
Posts: 141
Joined: 17 Oct 2011, 21:09
Call Sign: 29VLF125
Location: Carlow Ireland

Re: I need someone to make me a one off pic.

Post by Techquest » 02 Apr 2017, 21:07

Below is the link for the schematic of the elbex
http://www.mediafire.com/file/eixs1p49s ... PD8500.pdf

Regards Ray
Techquest AKA Jedi
Av101 Astro Plane Old Imax n Loads of Radios
Mmmmmmmmmmm ADAMS n other Presidents

lbcomms
Super Member
Super Member
Posts: 239
Joined: 04 Oct 2015, 08:10
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: I need someone to make me a one off pic.

Post by lbcomms » 03 Apr 2017, 14:09

That would be doable, but it would be only for someone comfortable around micros and RF / PLL circuitry. Definitely not a beginner or intermediate level project.

On the plus side, the clock uses a completely separate chip, so no need to re-write the clock and timer firmware.

But, on the minus, the PLL has only 6 programming pins so that would need replacing - a serial one would work nicely there if you have to code a micro anyway. The VCO would likely need widening, along with the mixers and probably the RF stages too if you want more than 80 channels in it.

A major project like that would probably be best done in two stages - as a standard 40 using the existing PLL first to get the keypad, display, data entry, and scanning all working.

Once that's done, swap the PLL, and add the code to expand the channels / drive the new PLL. Then do the broadbanding / RF stuff.

An interesting learning project, but not for a beginner or someone that doesn't have a proper workbench with all the right test gear...

User avatar
speeddemon
Radio Addict
Radio Addict
Posts: 650
Joined: 30 Jan 2017, 03:58
Call Sign: speeddemon

Re: I need someone to make me a one off pic.

Post by speeddemon » 05 Apr 2017, 22:50

Hi ray gdday mate. ty for posting that ive been looking for that schematic for awhile now. cheers n 73's

User avatar
speeddemon
Radio Addict
Radio Addict
Posts: 650
Joined: 30 Jan 2017, 03:58
Call Sign: speeddemon

Re: I need someone to make me a one off pic.

Post by speeddemon » 05 Apr 2017, 23:13

Hi sue. :wave: hru :?: I hope everything is gd over there that be kewl project :ugeek: I agree it would be a great educational learning project :ugeek: :thumbup: . I would Like to see that happening to those old tms 10xx series chiped radios give them some new life with a atmega 16 controller and with a modern pll chip and mega extra channel's/ new keypad and with a new display instead of ther owners letting them collecting dust In there closet / etc .what would you use for a pll to replace old pll lc7120 chip.? :ugeek: . And have you ever done your atmega 16 pll02a ssb circuit mod with a 3digit 7segment common cathode display ? I would like to do your atmega 16 pll02a circuit with that display to a few my radios . is there any changes in your code to make that type of display work .? Take care n 73's

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests