Whitestick V DISCONE?

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gmham
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Whitestick V DISCONE?

Post by gmham »

Guys got a vhf/uhf whitestick (x50 type) here that i am using for rx on my sdrplay sdr receiver. Thinking off replacing this antenna for one off the D1300 type DISCONE (discone with vertical section) be great to hear from anyone who has switched from a whitestick to a DISCONE for general vhf/uhf rx work to see if it's worth changing?
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Re: Whitestick V DISCONE?

Post by Admiral »

It got done to death here:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=30356
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Re: Whitestick V DISCONE?

Post by gmham »

Sorry about that should really know to search first ! just read thru it all and happy to keep the whitestick and save a few quid in the bargain !!
thanks again for the link.
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Moxon antenna for 10/20 mtrs

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paulears
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Re: Whitestick V DISCONE?

Post by paulears »

If you look at the frequency response for your white stick - don't look at the gain peaks but look where the troughs are where it's a bit feeble. If anything you want to hear is in the troughs, then the discone is a must. That's it really.
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Re: Whitestick V DISCONE?

Post by gmham »

Okay cheers
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Moxon antenna for 10/20 mtrs

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Re: Whitestick V DISCONE?

Post by thedeerhunter270 »

paulears wrote:If you look at the frequency response for your white stick - don't look at the gain peaks but look where the troughs are where it's a bit feeble. If anything you want to hear is in the troughs, then the discone is a must. That's it really.
Caveat here - the radiation pattern of a discone varies from negative to high over its frequency range. So it will depend on what and where you want to listen.
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Re: Whitestick V DISCONE?

Post by gmham »

Usual scanner freqs - 144 to 170 and around 446 to 453 mhz, bit off airband as well.
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Re: Whitestick V DISCONE?

Post by thedeerhunter270 »

gmham wrote:Usual scanner freqs - 144 to 170 and around 446 to 453 mhz, bit off airband as well.
At those frequencies - I'd buy an X30 collinear.
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Re: Whitestick V DISCONE?

Post by gmham »

Ok cheers as I say got an x50 or clone here , take it the x30 is pretty much the same ?
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Re: Whitestick V DISCONE?

Post by thedeerhunter270 »

gmham wrote:Ok cheers as I say got an x50 or clone here , take it the x30 is pretty much the same ?
Almost, but the x30 has less gain - the x50 will have a flatter radiation pattern.
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Re: Whitestick V DISCONE?

Post by paulears »

Adding in airband is exactly what I described - a band the X30/50 type antennas don't do that well.

I'm very confused by what thedearhunter says about polar pattern. The E plane response of the white stick antennas is distorted by multiple lobes that mean the angle of signal arrival is critical to any gain, or more often, lack of it. An aircraft, for instance could grow weaker as it gets closer, as the arrival angle takes that direction into a null. Discones are much more predictable, with the lobes being much more gentle and no nasty sharp peaks to confuse things. The huge spread of band used by the military is a good example of why they use discones, or the dual conical types - predictable performance.

The common white sticks are centred on amateur bands or the VHF/UHF commercial bands where they provide useful gain - but at civil and military airband, they're pretty well a bit of random metal in the sky, performance wise - and trying to follow an aircraft as they change channels can be frustrating when the strong signal you are hearing switches to a new frequency and simply vanishes!
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Re: Whitestick V DISCONE?

Post by gmham »

Okay cheers for the info, to be honest the rx on the white stick is actually very good, even on airband I am hearing Glasgow and prestwick airports a good 50/ 60 miles from here so suppose can't ask for better than that. have the white stick in the house just now but do plan to get it outside up high and in the clear and replace the rg58 with some more suited to these freqs !!
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Moxon antenna for 10/20 mtrs

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Re: Whitestick V DISCONE?

Post by paulears »

That's extremely good - don't change a thing! I'm pretty high here, near the top of a hill, and Norwich airport tower is just audible on an X30 (ham band version). An airband dipole 10ft lower can't hear it at all - so your range is brilliant. The thing with gainier antennas is that they're designed with gain in normally two places, harmonically linked, which helps the performance in those places, but they rarely give the gain comparison in the other places - and very often they are by design not very effective there. I can't find it now, but there was some discussion years ago, that if you plotted an antenna system's gain in every plane, and every frequency, then the result would exactly the same for every one. Any gain in one direction being matched by equal loss somewhere else. I think it was an old Jaybeam document from memory, but since the takeover, it's gone.
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Re: Whitestick V DISCONE?

Post by Admiral »

Paul is clearly very knowledgeable on the principles of antennas, I am not, so my theory is that if you find something that works for you then don't mess with it if it ain't broken. So if a scruffy wire dipole on the end of a broom handle held on with cable ties and cost nothing works as well or better than a £100 off the shelf antenna then stick with the broom handle.

I had a discone up for about 30 years before it finally succumbed to old age and fell to bits, it had a whip on the top that worked 2m better than any monopole I had tried over the years.
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Re: Whitestick V DISCONE?

Post by thedeerhunter270 »

paulears wrote:I'm very confused by what thedearhunter says about polar pattern. - Discones are much more predictable, with the lobes being much more gentle and no nasty sharp peaks to confuse things. The huge spread of band used by the military is a good example of why they use discones, or the dual conical types - predictable performance.
It is my understanding that Discone's don't have a uniform radiation pattern. And that it changes depending on frequency. I can't remember where I read that, so I have no way of referencing it.

Although - just had a look about and found this: http://www.ijlret.com/Papers/Vol-1-issue-3/6-A059.pdf Not sure if it really clears it up though.

Maybe this: http://www.benelec.com.au/base_station/02675.htm
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