VHF CB proposal

[Excalibur]

Me and the rest of the VHF CB team have been coming up with a new proposal to OFCOM regarding the unallocated space in VHF spectrum. Here are the frequencies power and more information

Notice
Do not currently use these frequencies as they are not permitted yet this is just a PROPOSAL and is yet to be passed forward in the UK

--FREQUENCIES--

Info: The VHF CB band would sit 1 mhz up from the current 2 meter amateur radio band. This allows equipment designed for 2 meter operation that is compatible with the VHF CB specification can be easily used on it.


The VHF spectrum lies between the HF spectrum and the UHF spectrum. Characteristics from the HF band tend to be a high noise floor (static) in some conditions and largely depends on atmospheric weather. This has proven unreliable for the current 27 mhz service as local communications can become disrupted by "skip" - long distance sporadic signals picked up. Also antenna size for HF 27 mhz is very large and is not suitable for handheld use and mobile use also requires large antennas.


The UHF spectrum is more similar to VHF an advantage to UHF is that it requires smaller antennas than VHF hhowever the signals have a hard time penetrating through dense forests and other environments in which VHF can be more suitable for a longer range.

This is why we believe that VHF is the way to go. Antennas are mid sized not too large for mobile and handheld use. And it does not suffer from "skip" conditions as on HF. On VHF there is more range in dense environments than UHF.





VHF CB Channel 1 146.00625 MHz
VHF CB Channel 2 146.01875 MHz
VHF CB Channel 3 146.03125 MHz
VHF CB Channel 4 146.04375 MHz
VHF CB Channel 5 146.05625 MHz
VHF CB Channel 6 146.06875 MHz
VHF CB Channel 7 146.08125 MHz
VHF CB Channel 8 146.09375 MHz
VHF CB Channel 9 146.10625 MHz
VHF CB Channel 10 146.11875 MHz
VHF CB Channel 11 146.13125 MHz
VHF CB Channel 12 146.14375 MHz
VHF CB Channel 13 146.15625 MHz
VHF CB Channel 14 146.16875 MHz
VHF CB Channel 15 146.18125 MHz
VHF CB Channel 16 146.19375 MHz
VHF CB Channel 17 146.20625 MHz
VHF CB Channel 18 146.21875 MHz
VHF CB Channel 19 146.23125 MHz
VHF CB Channel 20 146.24375 MHz

Channel spacing = 12.5 khz


CALLING CHANNELS
Channel 19
Channel 10

These calling frequencies would be used for people who want to make contact with other users in the area. They would call their name/handle on the channel and then move to a different channel after a contact is established.

--REPEATERS/GATEWAYS--

CHANNELS IN WHICH REPEATERS/GATEWAYS CAN BE USED
Channels 15-20

Repeaters and gateways are devices to help increase the range of the radios. Using repeaters we can extend the range of VHF radio systems from 10 miles to around 20 or even 30 miles if conditions are ideal.
Repeaters are devices that can rebroadcast signals heard on a channel on the same channel (simplex) or on an offset channel (duplex).
These can be especially useful for businesses who wish to increase the range of their radios systems and can also be used by a local community as a place to chat.

Gateways are radios that have been linked up to a computer or other device capable of internet connection allowing audio to be streamed and transmitted through the internet and the radio. This can be useful for if someone is outside the area yet still wants to talk on the VHF cb system in that location. Multiple gateways can be set up allowing a greater range through internet connection.



POWER OUTPUT
8 Watts RF max power out of radio - we believe that this is not too high in which can cause interference to other users while maintaining a suitable output power for a 10-20 mile range in simplex (radio to radio) conditions.

Mobile/handheld and desktop units are all permitted. - To allow use outside, in vehicles and at home.

External antennas permitted - To allow greater range and to encourage people to experiment with radio science to find the best antenna

Repeaters/gateways permitted - To allow greater range and to help communitiy spirit and businesses.


ANTENNA LENGTHS FOR VHF CB

1/8 ANTENNA = 0ft. 9 - 5/8in. or 0.244 M
1/4 ANTENNA = 1ft. 7 - 7/32in. or 0.488 M
3/8 ANTENNA = 2ft. 4 - 27/32in. or 0.732 M
1/2 ANTENNA = 3ft. 2 - 7/16in. or 0.976 M
5/8 ANTENNA = 4ft. 0 - 1/16in. or 1.220 M
3/4 ANTENNA = 4ft. 9 - 21/32in. or 1.464 M
7/8 ANTENNA = 5ft. 7 - 9/32in. or 1.708 M


Thank you for reading the proposal Please post your comments on what think should be in VHF CB

[radiogaga]

Seems a nice idea, supposing that Ofcom don't allocate 146Mhz as an extension to 2m


http://licensing.ofcom.org.uk/radiocomm ... dates/arc/

[M6UCW]

Good idea however 8 watts seems like a strange figure especially as mobile radios usually go in 5w/10w/25w/50w steps and handhelds around 1w/5w.
However is the use of repeaters ideal especially if you end up with businesses on the band when their are business licenses available for a small fee?
The VHF CB system should be setup but needs to be different from amateur or it will just be like having a license free amateur band and maybe impact on decisions regarding the amateur system.

[RogerD]

The amateurs will say it's too close to their sensitive space segment at the top of the 2m band, you'd be better off shifting it upwards somewhere or trying 143 MHz

[pwmonkey]

CB hardly gets used in huge swathes of the UK, can't see Ofcom dishing out more spectrum. Especially as they can't police the bands already available and wait for the onslaught of thousands of grumpy amateurs when said "VHF CB" user has 145 entered in Baofeng VFO rather than 146MHz .

What was it, 30 odd years to release CB AM/SSB operation in UK, would expect a similar wait for Ofcom to give you this.

pw

[GeeFull]

Nice idea, but I think you may have missed the boat, at least for a while, on the desired frequency, its on the cards to become a NOV based extension of 2 meters I am lead to believe.
And lets face it, in a straight shoot out, between "licence free campaigners" and the "RSGB" wanting it for amateur radio, who do you reckon will probably win out?
On repeaters/internet links, sorry you have little chance of them agreeing to that!
Licenced Radio Amateurs often have a struggle getting repeater and node allocations granted, and sometimes have to jump through hoops to get one granted!
They certainly will not even consider allowing them "willy nilly" in the hands of unlicenced users, operating on a licence free VHF allocation!
They simply won't, end of!
If and when the Radio Amateur service is granted access to it, it has already been stated that it would come with "very strict regulations", for the use of experimental various simplex, point to point, modes only!
And NOV's will only be available to full licence holders, and they would not be allowed the use of any repeaters or internet linking!
Now if they are being that strict in "proposals" with Licenced Radio Amateurs, do you honestly think they will allocate either it, or indeed any other nearby VHF spectrum, to unlicenced, and thus unaccountable, operators, and also permit the "setting up of repeaters and internet linking" as a cherry on the top?
You really need to get realistic in your wants and needs, as these things will never be granted!

[M6UCW]

Maybe best to have a few proposals - going from the maximum that would be ideal working down.
Sometimes putting a big proposal forward causes the entire idea to get shot down.
A slightly smaller proposal may be considered or a few tissues raised that need to be tweaked then resubmitted.
Also take into account any potential changes that Ofcom is looking at and the potential impact.
Overall, I'm not against the idea - just think it may need careful thought to try prevent a proposal taking decades to become a reality.

[GeeFull]

You also state the use of repeaters and gateways.
On gateways, at least they occupy one channel.
On repeaters, where were you planning on your input/output offset frequencies falling?
As your whole band proposal encompasses 237.5 kHz, you do not have enough bandwidth for successful repeater split frequency typical/practical offsets?
Which would leave you with the "parrot repeater" option, something often second to useless, in smooth running communications flow terms!
They just end up tying up a channel, for no major benefit to anyone, other than the people and their mates, who get a kick out of building it!

[pwmonkey]

I can't see any individuals forking out for the cost of say 600kHz cavity filters to allow in-band repeater use. It has to be parrot as its cheap and cheerful, imagine the chaos and cost of a 2m type repeater station for un-licensed VHF CB band on a high location, nah, just won't float.

Bear in mind that Amateurs I think still have "primary user" status for 2m band so the band police we have now would be in their element with a neighbouring CB band. If you want to use repeaters, get a ham license. CB never had them so why go to the bother of trying to have them.

pw

[GeeFull]

I can't see any individuals forking out for the cost of say 600kHz cavity filters to allow in-band repeater use. It has to be parrot as its cheap and cheerful, imagine the chaos and cost of a 2m type repeater station for un-licensed VHF CB band on a high location, nah, just won't float.

Bear in mind that Amateurs I think still have "primary user" status for 2m band so the band police we have now would be in their element with a neighbouring CB band. If you want to use repeaters, get a ham license. CB never had them so why go to the bother of trying to have them.

pw

Yes it often amuses me, that despite the often beligerant attitude of either camp to each other, the CB/Freeband/446 fraternity, seem hell bent on copying much of what their nemesis operators, take for day to day granted!
IE callsigns, repeaters, internet gateways, HF access to more than just 27 MHz, digital modes, whatever!
If you want that stuff, theres a world of it out there, for very little effort!

[Admiral]

Bob Hope and no hope.

You get SSB and AM on 11m after 35 years of asking, then you want to band grab 2m.

2m is already there, it's been there for decades, why not just use what's already there?

Where will it end?

[2E1IIP]

Where will it end?

Free radio gear on the NHS?

[pwmonkey]

Think this might be a better idea, What uses 245MHz over here?

Thailand has an 80 channel CB-style service using FM between 245.000 and 245.9875 MHz. Units are allowed up to 5 watts RF power. Besides personal use, the equipment is used by search and rescue and businesses. Operating rules are less restrictive than amateur radio service, with an initial license fee required. The hand-held units usually have a red case. There are an estimated one million users of the service, often in large cities

pw

[Adriano9966]

er Guys have we not already discussed this on another thread somewhere?

http://www.transmission1.co.uk/viewtopi ... allocation

some of us submitted our own proposals to ofcom regarding the available space the last I heard we were awaiting an answer from ofcom to its consultation for vhf spectrum use between 143 and 169Mhz...... there were numerous members of this and other forums that replied to the consultation document where we proposed a VHF cb allocation to replace the 934 Mhz cb allocation that was taken away in order to accomodate mobile phone usage .......that was back in May

[ChrisCSL]

I think Ofcom's reply would be along the lines of:

''Try actually using the frequencies you already have, before asking for more''.


''Me and the rest of the VHF CB team''..... Huh?