Ground Wave FM Dx

Post by **g0slq** » 02 Sep 2007, 15:43

This appeals to my liking, and matches my location with high ground and superb take off to the south. Yes it is great to pick up DX stations with lift conditions, but I like the challenge of picking up those closer stations.

Does anyone else share this part of the listening hobby? - getting started is always the first big step, receiver or tuner/amp, beam antenna or omni etc. - there are some good links - hope I can find a beginners guide or FAQ

Post by **The_Prisoner** » 07 Jun 2008, 21:55

Hello g0slq.

Thought I would resurect this thread. I am surprised nobody has responded. Or maybe there are not so many DXers here.

I am curious about a few things. How far away can you receive under flat conditions? How high above sea level are you?

I live on high ground in West Nottinghamshire at about 580 feet asl, overlooking the Amber Valley. I have a great take-off in most directions being close to the highest part of Nottinghamshire.

My daily FM reception includes German, French, Belgian, Irish and Dutch reception. You will appreciate that signals are very poor and intermittent. Some days these signals are elusive or not there at all. The mode is troposcatter, which is slightly different to tropo.

I can receive a few London stations, some ofthe high power Scottish and Wlsh BBC stations constantly. I use a modified Kenwood FM tuner with two amplified Triax FM5s, one vertical and one horizontal, on a rotator on the roof.

Anybody else into this kind of broadcast DX?

John

Post by **g0slq** » 08 Jun 2008, 22:19

Nice one - I cheated and today setup my internet radio (see elsewhere under software & computers) makes it a doddle to hear anywhere now.

I think i am nearer 500 ft asl. Bear in mind, I only used indoor antennas, or even whips & wires. From Gateshead I get places like BBC Radio York. Slightest bit of propo brings Lincs, Aire (Leeds) and BBC Norfolk is a good one. Capital has been picked up and many continental stations - I use an older Sony tuner with seperate amp. Hidden in the attic at present, I can't recall whether it has RDS - I seem to think it has, but not seen it for a fair few years.

I was wondering what I could use antenna-wise to get better reception. Perennial problems with antennae I'm afraid. I'm looking to mount a 6m beam, 2m beam and dual band vertical on one mast. On another I'd like possibly a 70cm yagi and radio aerial - I'm sure I have a rotator or two (again in the attic somewhere) lightweight will do the job.

Tell me more about the antennas John - they sound the biz, but I'm sure you'll agree as always the location is more important. I think a lot of people don't bother with the broadcast bands now - in this difgital age many people can't be bothered to winkle out crackly signals lol - still a few do though. I used to log AM stations - it's often a good bit of fun going through all the b/cast bands and logging everything heard - especially on the SW bands.

Steve

Post by **The_Prisoner** » 09 Jun 2008, 23:01

Hi Steve.

You would be better having your FM aerials on the roof, ideally on a rotator. They say that aerials in a loft may lose as much as 20dB because of the thick roofing tiles.

The main thing is to get your aerials as high as possible and clear of obstructions. If they are on the roof then try to get them a good half wavelength or more above the top of the roof.

Broadcast signals can use different polarisation. For instance, Belgium and Holland tend to use vertical polarisation whereas Germany and France use horizontal, so ideally, you would need two FM aerials: a horizontal and a vertical. There is a similar variation of 20dB between the two planes too, so a vertically polarised signal received on a horizontal antenna will be roughly 20dB lower than if you used a vertical antenna. I think that's the general rule of thumb anyway.

One of our Skywaves members has devised a cunning way to get two such aerials on one boom. This is the method I use. Because the two antennas are 90 degrees apart there is little chance they will interact.

http://www.skywaves.info/index.php?enti ... TML&id=289

The Triax FM5 is a superb antenna for DXing and has a good combination of gain, directivity and beamwidth. They're not too expensive either.

Your location must be OK if you have received plenty of continental stations.

You mention MW DXing. This is is another favourite of mine.

Regarding digital, it can go and crawl into a hole for me. If the signal doesn't fade or crackle a bit then I'm not interested.

Cheers

John

Post by **g0slq** » 10 Jun 2008, 10:47

Lol John - Had to re-read your post re: antennas in attic - no what I meant was I have 2 light-weight rotators somewhere in the attic

I have not had antennas up here for a decade or maybe more. I look with horror that the tree in front of the house not only mask part of the view, but are actually higher than my take-off point and will kill VHF signals

- I now wish we had not chased the local kids when they were damaging said trees many years ago - ironically, in autumn, the view re-appears and VHF paths improve - almost by magic

I know what you mean about digital - I'm going to get rid of my DAB - I'm a well-seasoned knob-twiddler myself

and QSB, QRM, QRN are all part of the SWL hobby.

I bought an internet radio over the weekend - you probably hate me now and most likely have put on a contract on my head - It's radio John, but not as we know it

- I won't pretend for one moment it is "real" radio or DX, but sometimes it is just nice to listen to a fave station in Florida (WDUV 105.5 Tampa Bay) easy listening reminds me of holiday last year and all the sunshine.

I like the skywaves site- some fine articles on there and very detailed. Some serious DX'ers on there with serious kit and excellent contacts. I have a more languid, almost casual approach - especially on HF/SW - have spent many hours with WRTH or Passband to World Radio just ticking off the SW stations on hearing their ident. Often with random wire or G5RV - never a dedicated band-resonant antenna.

There's just too many aspects to this hobby and as our friends across the pond would say, "Not enough real estate"

Steve

Post by **g0slq** » 10 Jun 2008, 10:48

dupe post.

Post by **fez** » 10 Jun 2008, 11:15

Must of missed this thread As I really enjoy long distance groundwave contacts.

Will read the whole thread when I am back from work.

Post by **The_Prisoner** » 11 Jun 2008, 00:13

I didn't realise how much trees can inhibit reception until recently. A ham friend was telling me how the trees in his garden have a serious effect on blocking the signals. Hey - maybe you could mount the mast and aerials in the tree!

I wouldn't go as far as having a contract put on your head just because you like DAB. Or would I?

What really ****** me off these days is the overcrowding of the broadcast bands. Years ago Ofcom said they would not be alowing any more new stations on the FM band, but what are they doing? There are at least half a dozen community stations opening up in this area alone in the next few months. There won't be any channels left to DX on before long.

I'm not that old (honest) but I wish we could go back to the days when the only controls on the TV were: The on/off button; A rotary tuning knob and the horizontal and vertical hold controls. Such simplicity! Remember the PMM5544? As for modern technology ... we're about to have Sky installed here with its zillions of channels. Still, I'll look forward to the 16MB broadband and unlimited phone calles which come with the package.

The Skywaves group has been running since 1995. Everything on the site is produced voluntarily and the group exists to promote the FM/TV/MW DX hobby. It's 'just' a hobby of course but we all know it can be very addictive at times. I tend to take a more casual approach about it myself these days but I can still throw myself into it when the transatlantic DX appears on band 1. I want to get this reception up into band 2 FM if possible - my goal.

A random thought to finish off with. I think DXing is similar to fishing in some ways. We all wait patiently for that big catch. There's nothing more relaxing. Throw in a few beers on a hot summer's day - heaven!

Cheers

John

Post by **g0slq** » 12 Jun 2008, 11:33

The_Prisoner wrote: A random thought to finish off with. I think DXing is similar to fishing in some ways. We all wait patiently for that big catch. There's nothing more relaxing. Throw in a few beers on a hot summer's day - heaven!

Cheers

John

I was gonna counter with Forrest Gump's "Life is like a box of chocolates" - but I won't

- feel free to let us know of anything you hear though John as it is underused is this section.

Steve

Post by **RogerD** » 12 Jun 2008, 12:44

yes, my brother-in-law the angler used to disappear out of their house at odd hours with a rod... I used to disappear out of my place at odd hours with a long mobile whip to put on the car....
.. good tropo was like a good tide... let's go see what I could catch!
Good job we don't have to fiddle about with messy bait on hooks

Post by **g0slq** » 13 Jun 2008, 08:18

RogerD wrote:yes, my brother-in-law the angler used to disappear out of their house at odd hours with a rod... I used to disappear out of my place at odd hours with a long mobile whip to put on the car....
.. good tropo was like a good tide... let's go see what I could catch!
Good job we don't have to fiddle about with messy bait on hooks

You not done much soldering then? lol.